nolesrule

Question about holding the election at camp. Do those units still hold an election if less than 50% of the registered boys are in attendance? Because that is the threshold for even being able to hold an election. It might not be much of an issue where you are but down here in my council it seems that less than 50% of boys attend summer camp with their units, which is a good argument to hold elections during a regular troop meeting instead.

Of course. That was exactly my point. I was responding to the definition of enemy as "Anyone who attempts to overthrow our form of government, as outlined in the constitution, through overt/covert force or subversion," which doesn't make room for that exception.

That seems a little vague. Shouldn't citizens have the right to overthrow their own government should it exceed its mandate? And does the new government that takes its place have the right to establish its own constitution or must it be forced to stick with the current one?

I'm just talking hypotheticals here.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

I had the very same reactions you did.

The insignia guide (at least the one I have) doesn't specify which shoulder, however, the drawing included shows it worn over the right shoulder. Also, the Scouting Magazine from May-June 1999 answered this question about proper wearing of sashes in the Letters section:

"The merit badge sash is worn only on formal occasions, and its correct position is over the right shoulder. The Order of the Arrow sash also goes over the right shoulder (but under the epaulet). It is worn on formal Order of the Arrow occasions or service projects and, according to the Order of the Arrow Handbook, "it is not to be worn in any other manner."

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/9905/d-lett.html

Besides, this is the only way that the left pocket (with rank badges) would remain uncovered.

I don't think 1 red and 1 green is appropriate. While the policy is once a uniform always a uniform, the loops come in pairs and I would consider a pair to be a single uniform item.

As for the rest, this is my personal opinion and not a comment on whether it is appropriate or not under the uniform guidelines, but I don't like the idea of switching out the loop colors based on position in the troop.

The position patch is for recognizing a leadership position within the unit. The shoulder loops are for identification of which program type (or level of service for silver and gold) within the BSA organization.

In regards to the unit numerals, if you have them in stock within the troop (perhaps as a one-piece) and give them to the boys that's one thing. But for new purchases, you'd be purchasing a Cub Scout item and placing it on a Boy Scout uniform. Fine line, I know, but think about it.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

I like the idea of the unit replacing the red loops for the green ones...and waiting for the next crossover seems like a good time to do it. It's the least expensive part of the uniform and promotes unity in the unit by everyone wearing the same color.

In one of the units I serve as a UC, the Cubmaster was never listed as trained on the unit inventory printout. Not only had he been trained and had the card, he had also completed Wood Badge and even served the district as a trainer for the position. It was never fixed by the time that he resigned as CM and moved on to the troop that his son crossed over to.

Heck, I just got an email the other day from my DC that they had none of my training records on file.

Sounds like fun. I wish that my old troop had done this a few times.

National Order of the Arrow Committee sets the policies for OA.

Most laws are based on safety, civil rights and the balance of civil rights when they are in conflict. They have a basis in historical morality some of which go back thousands of years to a time before organized religion. As you add laws, they need to based on what has come before in this particular country and not on any specific religion's point of view...after all, there are thousands of forms of Christianity all based on the same set of books.

If you want to be more specific on the religious nature of whether or not abortion is murder, think about this. The bible provides a scenario in which a person causes injury to a pregnant woman and this woman has a miscarriage as a direct result. The fetus is killed. Murder, right? The punishment for this is not the same as that for murder (it's not even close).

None of this has anything to do with my personal stance on the abortion issue. I'm just trying to make a point about how the government of this country is supposed to work...tyranny of the majority and all that jazz.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

The Unit Elections Report (the official election form to be turned into the Lodge) is supposed to be signed by the unit leader prior to the election, since what the unit leader is signing is "I certify that the above youth members are eligible and approve them as nominees for election. I also understand that election results will be final for the year."

There is no post-election signature required from the unit leader.

I agree with you.

My point was that a scouting activity is a scouting activity, regardless of whether it is a unit event. The G2SS statement on alcohol covers more than just unit events, district events, council events, national events and summer camp. Awarding a rank advancement to a scout is a scouting activity no matter how anyone wants to word it. Doesn't matter if it's at a truck stop or the White House.

The Lodge is within its rights to set the time of year of a unit OA election, but is supposed to work with the unit to set the date/time/location. However, the OA encourages (their word, not mine) that it be held prior to summer camp so that the odds of having at least 50% of the registered youth present for the election are increased, since you can't even hold the vote without it.

Various religions have varying views on the status of a fetus and whether or not abortion is murder. It's not a black and white issue (especially when you start throwing in gray areas for exceptions). The government should not be in the business of legislating religious morals. It's a slippery slope that can lead to a religious-based police state.

I agree that what Beavah said. Communication, and not government interference, is the right way to get the message across.

Here's an excerpt from the section on Elections from the Order of the Arrow Guide for Officers and Advisors (page 22) which is available as a public download on the OA website...

"4. The unit leader provides a list of all registered active members of the unit who meet all eligibility requirements including attitude and participation. The names of these members are entered on the report form and the unit leader signs the certification."

This is the only point in the entire elections procedure where the unit leader has a say in who is and is not eligible to be voted for. The unit leader is given this leeway because of the "attitude" eligibility requirement.

If you read the procedure in its entirety, you will see that the step after votes are counted is to write down the names and contact information of those who received enough votes onto a form and the OA Elections Team turns it in. There is no stage written in the procedures that allows for the unit leader to "scratch a name off" after the vote count has been finalized.

That's enough about procedure...

Or, let's use the scouting advancements as an analogy. The eligibility list is the Scoutmaster Conference, and the election is the Board of Review. When you have a problem with a scout, you take care of it with the scoutmaster conference. You don't wait until after he passes the board of review and then withhold the advancement.

This is my first post here, but as an Eagle Scout and Unit Commissioner, I felt the need to respond.

The Guide to Safe Scouting doesn't say anything about alcohol and unit events, and it is worded that way on purpose. What it says is:

"The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members."

An Eagle Court of Honor, even if being called a private function is "any activity involving participation of youth members" unless there are no registerd BSA youth present (and that would include the Eagle Scout himself). Moreoever, it most certainly is a scout activity, as the sole purpose is to present a BSA badge of rank.

As for alcohol at the reception, if it is a private reception that is held separately from the ECOH at another location with a separate invitiation, there is nothing that can be done. But if it is open to all the attendees including invited scouts, then alcohol is inappropriate per G2SS and the unit and chartered organization opens itself up to liability (IE your $1 insurance won't cover squat should anything happen...remember, the G2SS is a CYA policy).