Bando

SP, you keep using the phrase "bad behavior." I still can't figure out your point. Especially when I continued to be active as a youth member of my troop for three years, and as an adult for three more, with no one raising any concerns about my ECOH, nor my behavior, or my ability to intelligently and coherently express myself in accordance with the Oath and Law.

I think I've conducted myself in an above board way in this argument, without getting hysterical, angry, or making accusations I am not qualified to make. So I'm done. SP, if you wish to continue to make assumptions about what and how I voiced my support for inclusive scouting in a forum where I was invited to speak about whatever I wished, in an event organized to honor my achievements at which you were not in attendance, that's your bandwidth to expend.

I should also add that I take the Eagle Oath rather seriously. As a refresher, in part it states:

"On my honor I will do my best to make my training, rank, and influence count strongly for better scouting and for better citizenship in my community, in my troop, and in my contact with people always."

Seems to me there is a responsibility there, and we're seeing Eagle Scouts all over the country take this sentiment to heart when it comes to voicing their opposition to the membership policy.

"For how many people did you spoil the ceremony? Quite a few apparently, but you didn't care. "

Actually, none. One can disagree with someone without letting that disagreement get them so hot and bothered they let a matter of ideology ruin their day. By "not making friends," I mean that it was not a popular opinion to state, but I had no problem with expressing it if it would help make my organization better.

It seems you handle dissenting opinions a lot differently than most other adults would, and I think that's a problem you may need to evaluate on your own. A scout is courteous. And there are many ways in which different opinions can be shared and discussed without anger, and many venues in which they can be brought forth.

I used an opportunity to discuss an aspect of scouting I wish to change. Scouting taught me to stand up for what is right, and to seize opportunities to improve my community. I did that.

You can continue to act like you were there, and that you know better than all of us what is appropriate and what is not (read: what you agree with and what you don't), but at the end of the day, I am content with how I voiced my opinion, and never had anyone in my troop contest my right to do it, or criticize the means by which I did it.(This message has been edited by Bando)

I guess I'm confused as to why a brief tangent on inclusive scouting in an ECOH speech by the honoree is "political" and not consistent with "scouting purposes." Or why it should be grounds for an irritated adult to stop the young man, grab the medals, close the Court, and send everyone home (which far better fits the definition of hijacking, but I digress).

I guess this is just emblematic of how much this adult issue can be and is projected onto the scouting experiences of young people. It's sad.

Pardon me if I choose to no longer entertain your angry, biased, nonsensical hypothetical.

I'm sorry, it seems to me you have next to no idea what an Eagle COH is for. First, your assertion the SM has the right to end it and "not award" the medal if a scout disagrees with the membership policy. Now your idea that it's a vehicle for FOS and the District.

Wrong and wrong. And it's unfortunate this policy has so poisoned your ability to comprehend the BSA program, much less be courteous, kind, or cheerful in expressing yourself to fellow scouters.

SeattlePioneer, and you're certainly entitled to couch your opinion in the most abrasive, presumptive way possible. But that doesn't mean you will get away with bullying your view through to the finish.

I used my short response at my COH to thank everyone who helped me get where I was, and took a moment to lament the fact that the BSA's membership policy limited others from having the incredible experience my family and I had in scouting. Scouting taught me to stand up for what is right in a respectful, courteous way. I think I did that, and don't particularly care what an angry anonymous person on the Internet who wasnt there wants to assume about it.

If the BSA wants to revoke my membership for opposing a membership policy that is increasingly isolating the organization from mainstream American society, I think that says more about Irving and their understanding of American citizenship than it says about me.

I stood up in front of over a hundred people at my Eagle COH, some six months or so after the SCOTUS Dale decision, and clearly voiced my opposition to the LGBTQ membership policy. Didn't make too many friends on that one, and I didn't care. It was the correct position then when I was 16, and it's still the correct position today. As a currently registered adult, I'm open with anyone who asks that I oppose the policy. People who know me know my position on the issue, and I make no attempt to hide it.

While the policy does not affect my membership status, it negatively affects the strength of this organization in its ability to help young people be the kinds of well-rounded, well-adjusted, and worldly leaders our society needs. It's a manufactured, adult issue negatively impacting the BSA's influence in the lives of today's young people, and I have a huge problem with that.

It's not the easiest thing sometimes, but clearly stating an opposing view to an institutional policy seldom is.

With my medal, I take the position that the BSA can't take it away, nor do I think I have the right to return it. I applaud the stand these fellow Eagles are taking, but it's not the way I will voice my opposition.

I will work for the necessary reversal of this policy from within the BSA, with my Eagle medal pinned above the Eagle knot on my uniform shirt.

Anecdotes are nice, but are not definitive or indicative one way or the other.

Also, you have to acknowledge that when it comes to issues of homosexuality, America in 2012 is a much, much different place than America in 2000-2001, when the Dale case was front page news.

Perhaps they will use their extant, para-BSA literature, hierarchical structure, program ideas, and scouting culture to officially form the separate organization they essentially already have.

"As adult volunteers, we are not asked what our opinions are on the BSA membership."

Yet isn't that exactly what Nationals is claiming they did?

I'm in the Area 2 region as well, and I've heard rumblings of stuff like this.

This year, when FOS came through, every leader in our troop was required to either donate the specified amount or go in person to the SM and tell him we were opting out so they didn't have to refer our name to the "phone bank" and cost the council money to call us to solicit a donation. (I wonder where that call center is?)

I'm decidedly in the time-talent camp of scouting, not the treasure. I have to admit I laughed a bit when the FOS requirement was thrown down on us, and laughed a little less when I had to go own up to the fact that I didn't have $150-whatever to give.

I volunteer my time, I give my experience, and I do what I can within my means. I think that's true of all of us. Who is some suit at the council to tell any of us we don't do enough? And why should their autograph be held over our heads for a donation?

Last summer, our troop instituted a fee per night for adults (the troop, not the camp) to, apparently, make camp cheaper for the kids, as well as dissuade too many adults from just coming and overtaxing the accommodations. For me, I'm on a limited income, and when it comes to Scouts, I don't give to FOS, I don't go to the expensive council dinners, etc. I give my time, my experience, and my efforts for the boys. I suspect many adults have the same attitude, and many have the same predicament.

Even beyond that, I find it a bit odd for adults to be charged for volunteering their time, especially when many are taking valuable vacation days to be there to facilitate a great, safe, and supervised experience for the boys.(This message has been edited by Bando)

I interviewed for a DE position a few years back in my home council. I was ready to put some opportunities aside because I really thought it was a great opportunity to do some good in my area, to give back a little for what Scouting gave me, the typical altruistic motivations of a 23 year old recent grad.

So I went in there and had a perfectly lifeless interview with a perfectly lifeless suit, career pro who came off as apathetic, overworked, the whole nine yards. He asked me why I wanted the job, and I went on about my scouting experience, how much I was enjoying being an adult volunteer, how much I loved working with the kids. He stopped me mid sentence, leaned forward, and bluntly exclaimed "we don't work with kids. Get that out of your head now."

I really should have just walked out then. I realize these guys have a job to do, but I really get the impression if you truly love the BSA, the program, the possibilities for kids, you're better off living your life and finding a local troop than spending your time in a suit talking financials and quotas. Spend your weekends camping, not wining and dining donors. I feel like the worst place for an Eagle Scout is worrying about FOS numbers and unit retention.

In our full-uniform troop, our scoutmaster routinely shows up in flip flops without socks and non-official pants. Some folks don't get it, and never will.

Have the Eagle kits always come with a mentor pin? Earned mine in 2001, and I don't remember anything about a mentor pin, but now it's a really big deal. Definitely a cool development, as far as I'm concerned.

I worked Action Center last time around, and in the last few days we've had a flurry of emails from our group to the effect that I don't think any of them will be coming back this time around. Sounds like a fundamental change in how these programs will be run, a lot of folks might feel shoved out, others don't know what's going on, some of the older guys are a bit wary of the more rustic living arrangements and general hearsay of what this one's going to be like...

I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm in the camp right now of really wanting to come back in 2013, but I'm going to have to find a new program area. Had so much fun the last time, I'll do anything to do it again. Yet I worry, even with the well-trodden AP Hill scenario where everyone more or less had an idea of what they were getting into and how things would work, it still seemed like a near-disaster on the ground at times in 2010. I can't imagine how much of a mess this thing is going to be with an entirely non-tested Jamboree site, logistical setup, electronic-heavy arrangement, etc.

Maybe it will shake up the old boys' club of guys with six rows of knots on their shirts who turned Jamboree into an outlet for their scouting bravado, turning their tent area into a country club of unidirectionally-fanned, mini-fridged comfort, all unloaded from a car driven directly to the end of their cot. Looking at how we all arranged ourselves at AP Hill, I wonder if a lot of these folks had even seen the inside of a backpacking tent in the past decade...

I'm a 25-year-old ASM. I started up again as an adult when I was 23. I'm lucky to have a troop that took me in (the one I grew up in, in fact), but have also had the experience of getting the cold shoulder from a unit when I lived in another city.

I've found my experience to be largely positive, although I must admit a bit of surprise the first time a parent asked me which scout was my son! At any rate, the relationship I have with scouts is a bit different than that of other adult leaders. Because I'm much closer to their age than the other adults in the room, they relate to me differently, and that can be a positive and a negative.

Sometimes scouts see a younger leader and think they can pal around with me the way they pal around with the older guys in the troop. (Not so, of course.) Sometimes scouts feel more comfortable talking to me about things than they do someone who is their dad's age. And that's a good thing, I think, as long as things are within the boundaries of Youth Protection, and as long as you keep in mind what the barriers are in what should be talked about with a parent and not a scout leader. I do think Youth Protection barriers are tougher for me to keep in check because of my age, because I think that there are a lot of scouts who don't necessarily see me as an "adult." As long as I'm careful and aware, though, there isn't a problem.

I also think some adults with sons in the troop may also look at an adult who doesn't have a kid in the troop with a certain amount of suspicion. And I think, given the climate these days with abuse issues, there is a certain paranoia that someone who doesn't have (for lack of a better term/idea) a "reason" to be there may not have the right motives. At the end of the day, all you can do is make sure everything you do is obviously above-board, show that you know what you're doing, show you can offer something of value to their program, and be enthusiastic about working with the kids. That's how it's worked out for me.

My first instinct is "an adult thought a lot about this." Because there's no way a kid is forming the ideology of this troop, nor is it likely youth are rigidly implementing it.

Boy lead or adult fantasy?

This is about the third time I've heard knee socks are back. I've seen scouts wearing new-style knee socks here and there. Yet ScoutStuff doesn't have them, and I've never seen them in the scout shop.

Now, I have a nice little cache of ODL knee socks, thankfully, so I'm good for a while. But at some point the elastic is all going to go. So are there new knee socks available or not?

EDIT: Whaddya know, they don't show up when you pull up "Boy Scout uniforms-socks" on ScoutStuff, but DO show up when you just pull up the general socks page. Right. Knee socks are back indeed!(This message has been edited by bando)

When I entered the troop I am involved with as an adult, there was a young man who was doing all of the bugling. He was really enthusiastic about it, but was a clear beginning musician only a few years into his school music program and needed some help with the calls, as well as some motivation and confidence to use them in troop settings. I worked with him, helped him through the Bugling MB, and just before I had to move away from the area for a time, I managed to find the old troop bugle in the trailer (which had apparently not been used since I was bugler in that troop over a decade prior) and entrusted it to him to use instead of his trumpet.

I had the opportunity to return to a meeting about 9 months later, and to my surprise (and quiet pride), discovered he was receiving an award from the troop that night for doing such a great job reviving the Troop Bugler position. And he's doing more than any bugler I can remember! Proof positive a little nudge can go a long way.

To think Nationals almost axed the merit badge because they thought kids weren't interested anymore...

I'm only a little under a decade out from being a youth, but I'm glad my problem was that my youth uniforms were -too big- when I registered again as an adult! Counting my blessings I'm able to comfortably wear an adult small shirt and 32 shorts, and will be doing my best to make sure it stays that way as long as possible.

And I too wear my medal at ECOH's.(This message has been edited by bando)

This is about as good as it gets for that picture:

http://www.shorpy.com/node/2797

HUGE high-resolution version is there, too.

Glad I snatched up some of the last ODR 100% cotton uniform shirts before National Supply ran out. Unfortunately, the removal of my patches from my youth shirts left some rather unsightly stains, so I had to scramble to buy new.

Now the only challenge is to make sure I stay fit enough to still fit into a size small, haha.(This message has been edited by bando)