mich632

I actually posted this in another location but will repeat as best I can here.

I am going to Seabase in 5 days. Marinelaw had me concerned.

I called the USCG station in Miami and found out the facts.

A new law went into affect in 1994 dealing with charter boats. Because the law did not apply directly to what seabase was doing, a letter was written and agreed to by both parties defining what was allowed.

That agreement recently expired.

The USCG and Seabase have got together and a new agreement was signed within the past few weeks.

It allows Seabase to operate with 8 passengers and 1 pilot.

Sorry marinelaw but I think you are beating a dead horse.

According to the USCG in Miami, seabase is operating within the law.

I am going to Seabase in 5 days and was concerned.

So I called the USCG station in Maimi and they faxed me a copy of the MOI (memorandium of understanding) that was issued by the USCG this year. It states that Seabase and the USCG agrees that Seabase can operate vessels with 8 passangers and 1 licensed captain.

This NEW MOI was issued because of a disagrement between the USCG and Seabase that occurred earlier this year.

The issue Marinelaw is discussing has been resolved.

Sorry Marinelaw but it seems you are beating a deadhorse here.

But thanks for raising your concern.

Marinelaw posted two issues which I can speak directly to.

I leave for Seabase in 6 days.

1. Weight limits. Seabase requires a signed physical from the doctor certifing that you meet certain weight standards. The doctor must weigh you and sign that you not only do not exceed the max weight but the correct weight for your height.

I am 5'6" and had to lose 10 pounds. I could not weigh over 167. PERIOD.

2. Age requirements. We had to provide drivers license or birth certificates for everyone going to PROVE our age. Even me at 47.

Can someone explain WHEN you become a senior member? How many posts?

I never paid attention to what I was. I thought junior was "under 18" senior was "over 18". But obviously not since I am a junior and I'm definitely over 18.

Taking away the tent is like a earlier post. Boys were using aresol cans as flame throwers and the solution was to take away matches.

You solution should be to solve the problem. And the problem is not the tent.

This really should be broken down into two separate discussions.

1. What is an official boy scout uniform.

2. How to salute the flag while in the uniform and not.

I will leave the discussion about offical boy scout uniform to another thread.

Bob, tell me if I understand this.

If a boy is in an offical boy scout uniform then he should salute the flag.

If a boy is NOT in an offical boy scout uniform, then he should put his hand over his heart.

Is that correct?

If your camp has a registered nurse, then you may find that state law is more restrictive than BSA policy. As a minimum you must comply with BSA policy, but some state laws may be more restrictive.

I attend camp in multiple states and find the medicine rule varies by state.

Example:

Maine. No medication is allowed to be distributed by Adult leader. PERIOD. I have to turn in ALL non-prescription medication to camp nurse. She controls ALL prescription and non-prescription medications. As an adult I am not allowed to even have my own personnel medication in the camp site. ALL medication MUST be turned into the nurse.

Connecticut. I can distribute non-prescription medication such as asprin but she controls ALL prescription medication.

Can you please give more specifics about where on crater rim road you walked?

I will be out there in 2 weeks and want to see that. Thanks.

Family only, not scouts.

Committee does not, nor should they be involved in the decision on the rules on elections of leader positions.

Is that what you wanted to hear?

The boys make that decision.

Don't lose faith. There are many reasons to become an Eagle. You should be proud of your accomplishments. Just don't expect the "eagle" on your application to be a magic pill.

I hire people all the time. Last year I had 40 people apply for one job.

I could not interview 40 people. So first, I needed to reduce the list. Things like "Eagle Scout" will help keep the application in the pile BUT it does not guarentee a job, let alone an interview.

Getting an interview, let alone a job is hard work, some salesmanship and some luck. Don't give up.

The troop I am with has NEVER done an Junior Leader Training. And the boys ability to lead is a direct reflection of that.

I have been SM for a short period of time and I desparately want to start the JLT process.

I have a copy of the "scoutmaster junior leader training kit" which I have read. But there is only so much you can get out of the book.

I'm looking for some advice from the experts out there.

What do you do?

How often do you do it?

Who attends?

How should it be run when NO ONE has ever had any training?

Do I run it as a weekend campout, or over a few nights or what?

Help!

"I thought a Chaplin was of Christian origin."

It may well be. But the duties of Chaplain in the JLT handbook are:

1. keep troop appraised of religous holidays when planning activities

2. Assist in meeting the religous needs of the troop members while on activities

3. Encourage saying grace at meals

4. Tell troop about religous emblem program of their faith

5. Set good example.

"No church services on camp outs if everyone are not of the same faith?"

I have been on campouts (district) where there were multiple religous services (church) put on. I've been on smaller outings where we invite a different religous person ( priest, minister etc) each year and ask them to provide a religous service WITHOUT specific reference to their religion. Some great discussion can occur about GOD without specific reference to any one religion.

But the best service is always the one on the trail. Getting up early as the sun is just coming up. Here is a great quote from the scout handbook. " Wonders all around us remind us of our faith in GOD." Looking up at the stars at night or the sun cresting over the mountains enforce our co-existance with GOD. I may not be able to go to Mass, but I can hold a non-denominational service and teach the boys about reverence.

Reverence is important in scouting as is all other laws. You should have a chaplin in your troop who will deal with many of the things you discussed.

My only advice. Reverence implies a respect for a higher being. NOT any specific religion. You will have Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. Teach reverence. NOT religion.

Have any of your troops filed for 501©3 tax status? Is it worth it?

We recently tried to get a corporate contribution from one of our parents employeers. They do this all the time. They would not donate directly to the troop because we do not have 501©3 status. National holds that status. We tried to get them to contribute to council and have the money transfered to us. Council would not do that.

We tried to use our Charter Organization which is the local fire department, but they don't have 501©3 stauts.

Just looking for suggestions. Thanks.

Yes, we do a 50 miler canoe/hike in upperstate NY every other year.

There are many finger lakes around lake placid that provide connecting rivers and lakes to get around.

Type in TOPOZONE.com and look for Blue Mountain Lake in NY. You can follow directions thru maps. There are also many good books written about the many lakes and trips in the area.

One of our favorites starts in Blue Mountain lake, continues thru Eagle lake and Utouana lake ( first night camp in shelter.

Next morning 1 mile portage to Raquette lake, lunch at Tioga campground continue to outlet bay for a 1 mile portage to Fork Lake. (2nd night camp at fork lake camp ground.) Usually do service project there. And spend one day resting.

Next day portage canoes to long lake ( by car, boys walk 4 miles).

lunch at Long Lake town beach. Paddle to Kelly point shelter for night.

Next day finish long lake and paddle Raquette river to water falls. Biggest/hardest portage ( 1.5 miles with 700 foot elevation change.) Camp at base of water falls in shelters.

Next day finish trip down Raquette river to boat launch.

Total distance paddled (52 miles) Total distance portaged about 8 miles.

To do this trip we need cars at three areas, blue lake, fork lake campsite and the boat launch at end.

We have our own canoes but there are many outfitters in the area who would love to rent canoes.

Good luck.

Yes, we have a troop 1 in our district.

We also have three troops with the same number as mine in our council. Just different districts. Whenever, I have lost advancement or other lost issues. I have to have council look in the other troops records. Quite a problem.

The answer to your question is covered in " Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures WW330880, 1999". Your advancement committee person MUST have a copy of this. If not it is available at the scout store for about $5.

Here is an the exact quote "Earning merit badges gives a Scout the kind of self-confidence that comes from overcoming obstacles to achieve a goal. Through the merit badge program, a Scout also learns career skills, develops socially, and may develop physical skills and hobbies that give a lifetime of healthful recreation. The steps to follow in the merit badge program are outlined in the current Boy Scout Requirements. This book lists the requirements a Scout meets to earn each of the more than 100 merit badges that are available. Scouts must be tested individually, and they must meet all the requirements. No additional requirements may be added.

A merit badge cannot be taken away once it has been earned, provided the counselor is a registered counselor for the merit badge.

There is no time limit for completion of merit badges other than age 18."

You can also go to www.cccbsadvance.org/policies. for an on line copy.

Hope this helps.

thank you eisely

You have hit the nail on the head.

"unless you see it in writing."

If you want to know what boyscout policy is you have to "READ" their written documentation.

So much of what is discussed here is opinion and belief. NOT FACT.

Having said that, I love reading these forums. They are entertaining and I learn from them. I loved the discussion about knives and matches.

But you can not read something here and ASSUME it to be fact unless a source document is provided. Period!

The original question was " Is this a BSA Policy?(if so where can I find it?) or a Local / Council decision. "

Go to http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss That is National's web page for Guide to Safe Scouting.

That is the current, searchable guide to safe scouting.

Here is what it says.

"A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

Rememberknives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

References: Boy Scout Handbook, Fieldbook, Bear Cub Scout Book, and Wolf Cub Scout Book."

This is current BSA policy. It's vague about what "large" is. But that's the rule and it's location.

There is another excellent scoutmaster type forum that has been discussing this exact issue. It is scoutmaster.org. I recommend you look at it also.

Here is an excerp from it:

"take a look at what the Blue Card has printed above the signature line. "and is qualified to begin working for the merit badge noted on the reverse side."

The unit leaders signature verifies the scout meets any prerequisites set by the BSA in the front of the MB book. It does not say that the SM "approves" or "authorizes" the choice (and especially not that the SM chooses it for him). It doesn't even say that the scout is capaple of completeing the badge. It just says that he is qualified to "begin".

Don't make more of this than there is, or give the SM a "power" that is not there. All the related resources and training material are very specific. The scout chooses, and the SM makes sure he has a registered counselor, and that is the extent of the SM role for beginning a merit badge. "

It must be nice to live in world where more than one person is qualified for AND wants to be the SM.

I have a boy in 7th grade that will make life scout before he returns to school next year. In the troop for a little more than 2 years. He made First class in less than a year. He is driven to get his merit badges, loves getting them. He attends every meeting, every campout and event. His goal is to make Eagle before high school.

As for maturity, I require progressively harder leadership positions as the boys move up in rank.

As a star scout I will accept scribe, historian, bugler, etc. The boy is helping the troop and learning.

As a Life scout I want them to have a larger leadership role in the troop. I will accept PL, Troop Guide, ASPL or SPL if they are ready.

In both of those situations, the SPL or ASPL (depending on the position as defined in JLT) must sit down with the scout and explain to them their job position and establish goals for their time in position.

I explain to the boys that I will not sign of their time in leadership position just because they wore the patch. They need to do the job as defined in JLT book.

When it is time for eagle scout, I think they need to be an ASPL, SPL.

Becoming an Eagle Scout is not just about getting 21 merit badges and spending time in the troop. It's about boys being taught to lead.

Can a boy learn that in 3 years? Some yes, others no.

For the boys that will need a little more time, I think the SM and boy needs to sit down and have an honest discussion.