littlebillie

Ah, Bob, therein lies the rub, eh? I have become vaguely aware that the next SCOTUS challenge may address the charter and its verbiage - just exactly what does it mean by 'boys'? Kind of like the people's right to bear arms, I'd say. So until then, I'd say we pend clarification. You read it as "select boys" and I, as "all boys". Either way, it'll be interesting. And remember - we are all caretakers, not owners! Exec can change its membership eligiblity list at any time to exclude anyone. Which is their right, however wrong! Anyway - funding includes free use

'The Homeowner has the legal and moral right to say "You don't like my house that's fine...leave. I can choose who I invite to stay." "You don't have to like what I do, but I dont have to let you in."' Bob, you left out the full statment that seems like it should need to be made. After all, there are some cogent differences between private properties and private organizations that have nevertheless received public support in various forms over the years... "...even if you have paid my property taxes and contribute labor to my new additions. I don't even need to listen to your sugge

fboisseau, I appreciate your clarifications, and thank you for taking the time to make them. it's kind of awkward here in the middle - I guess it'd be a good idea for me to periodically restate that a) I think Scouting is great and b) I want to see it open to mare kids than available to fewer... Thanks.

OGE, I'd also liken this to the Pledge of Allegiance. Some folks - most, I'm sure - say THE Pledge of Allegiance. Some, though, say A pledge of allegiance. Among these, some may go for the older (tho' not the earliest) format and just leave out "under god". Others may choose to substitute 'heaven' for 'God'. And while these latter may not be THE Pledge of Allegiance, there is nothing preventing such persons from pledging allegiance using any words they choose. Some disagree with freedom of speech, and some exercise it...

first, a wee bit of housekeeping - I think "hypocrite" would apply to Merlin if he HAD included God... see, THEN he would have professed something he didn't believe in. Merlyn, I checked out that site, and - you're right - it's anecdotal and represents a single arbitrary decision on the part of someone who doesn't have a problem in making up awards, either. I'd really like to see a more in-your-face example - a la Lambert - where the nat'l org would pretty much have to comment. Again, the organization lets you certify yourself 'spiritual' - I am interested in a real test of that vs a

Bob, I chose a particular verb with full knowledge of a certain history, and full knowledge of the verb; I stand by it. "Abandoned" fits the situation that occurred better than you know, and it is used without sentiment. Just as one abandons a claim, a copyright, or even a lawsuit - contracts and cub scouts can be abandoned as well. A petty cavil, perhaps, but thank you for your opinions. "The only people who abandon scouting are those who believe in scouting but who do not support it verbally, physically or financially." Assuming they have never supported scoutin

Merlyn, So the GSUSA can meet at a public school while the BSA cannot? Or is there something about how the GS units are realized that makes the difference? Or...? Additionally, does this mean that an atheist with a conscience is deemed spiritual by the girl scouts? Since this is something I'm interested in at a number of levels for a number of reasons, can you point me to any site that discusses girl scouts that have "come out" religiously - as total atheists, and self-declared as without a spiritual side - and what the national body response has been? Thanks!

there's another safety issue, and that is the sheath itself hanging up. Some activities - rock climbing, say - just don't need that kind of possible problem. a pocket knife is just as available under most circumstances, and really should be the first choice for the boys. notice I said first choice tho - not only choice. once you have a good p'knife, you can look at other blades. with sheaths, the adults need to be aware that more kids are going to say "show us THAT" - once you have that in mind, you can work with it.

Merlyn, just out of curiosity, the GSUSA does not, contrary to popular belief, vary so much from the BSA insofar as religion goes. Their website - go to http://www.girlscouts.org/adults/beliefs.html - puts God in the picture, and explains that "The 'motivating force in Girl Scouting' is spiritual. Girl Scouts respects the spiritual values and beliefs of its members, leaving the interpretation of spirituality to each individual and the family." Now, basically, I see this self-interpretation of 'spirituality' as an invitation to the atheist girl simply to lie about being spiritual i

fboisseau, first, you tell me what my position is. when i clarify that, you then tie me to somebody else's position. I'm not sure I recognize that style of debate or argument. Can you let me know if you're talking about ME, or some group to which I do not belong? I'm getting confused. About me, you need to know that I was an Eagle Scout when I participated at THAT level, that I have been Pack Leader and that I am currently an Assistant Troop Leader. My opinions are not shared with the boys, but I do write letters to Texas, and I have a set of core beliefs to which I hold true.

"How can one embrace Judaism, Christianity, and Wicca simultaneously?" One PERSON would have a hard time; a non-demoninational but nevertheless faithbased GROUP - like the Scouts - should be able to embrace members who in turn embrace different faiths. Heck, that most recent atheist Eagle kid was asked if he couldn't even just profess a belief in Nature - which was probably good news for both Druids and Pagans!

" Do you know the difference between physical characteristics and sexually perverse behavior? I wonder? " And I wonder if YOU are aware that the whole nature/nurture question regarding the origins of homosexuality remains unanswered? Those who say simply "it's a choice" would probably have a pretty unsympathetic view of stuttering as well... yeah, THAT'S a choice. (FYI, this was chosen because it may have origins quite as complex as homosexuality, with a range of causation from strictly physical to strictly psychological, with stops at all major stations in between). fboiss

a few names of openly gay public officials, probably all oxymoronic per ed, from http://www.victoryfund.org/public/office/office.cfm Jarrett Barrios State Senator - Cambridge, MA Tammy Baldwin U.S. Congress 2nd District - Madison, WI Raymond Buckley State Representative, District 56 - Manchester, NH Scott Dibble State Senate - Minneapolis, MN Tim Carpenter State Senator - Mil.,WI Also look at http://www.lambda.org/famous.htm Plenty more, actually. a whole list of folks whom some declare in knee-jerk fashion to be indecent and unethical sim

(uh-oh - he's ba-a-a-a-ck!) ed, it stops when every decent, ethical law-abiding boy has access to scouting... IF you are a very religious person, for example, wouldn't you think the reverence that is displayed at every scouting function would be a positive influence for a kid toying with atheism? and for a boy who has no strong father figure, or father at all, scouting can certainly good provide role models. regardless that, i think one giant step in the right direction would be for the BSA to authorize the use of the basic program - merit badges, rank, even access to

Ya know, I hope to heck (pardon my Freedom) that the kid doesn't stumble upon this thread. Too much Aspersioners Syndrome happening, I think, esp. about folks I doubt any of us has met... But if so - Jed, congratulations. You took on a Herculean task - Herculean squared, nearly! - and you completed it. You've done more now than some folks will by retirement - pretty impressive. Good luck with whatever you do next - and I know you'll succeed at it!

well, as long as we're just making guesses about stuff, and offering up opinions about a kid we've never met, let me jump in, again. this boy and his family and his Troop and his friends and his counselors may all very well know that he's running against the clock. AND I'll guess they all know that this is/was something important to someone who won't have a lot of time on the planet to do quite so much as the rest of us... God forbid, but if there's the least truth to this scenario, I'd say EVERYone was encouraging the boy, and working with him, etc. Is the kid's goal to learn some

Mark, now I'm moving away from generalities (GENERALLY speaking, most boys DON'T get every merit badge) and stepping back to the specifics. Specifically, this kid. This kid's got cystic fibrosis - read, probably gonna die young. This kid's got diabetes - read,early nerve damage and shortened life span. Put them together and throw in asthma - I say God bless this kid if this is something that was important to him to get done in his probably limited time on earth. He set himself a goal, with less assurance than most of us that he'd see it through - and he reached it. And ya know wh

"...what did he learn?" well, until anyone who asks that question ABOUT the boy can talk TO the boy and make their own determination, it's a pretty pointless discussion, at least in terms of this individual. pointless at best, and unfair as we move along THAT spectrum... More generally, tho'... Let's say the kid got Insect Study when he was 11, and today he DOES remember that only Hemiptera can really be called bugs, and all he remembers about Lepidoptera is the name - even so, he's already he's ahead of most Americans! Is the idea of a non-core, non-required Merit Badge reall

Taking this at face value, and making the reasonable assumptions - a bright kid, with enthusiasm, parents of a challenged child trying hard to 'enable' him (i.e., maybe providing a bit more direction than many want to see), maybe a few easy counselors - heck, you're bound to cover the full spectrum working on so many - even considering all this, it'd still take meeting the kid and looking into his eyes when he talked about it to convince some folks. Rightly so. But if it IS all true, and above board, the kid's now at the point where you have to think about what he does next. We've a

whew... so many considerations, eh? the widowed (or otherwised) single mothers of boys with NO adult male figures NEED a chance to participate in the program, esp. if that benefits the boy and the family dynamics. This is not just single-parent sentimentalism - that mom becomes the family's participant and adult voice in all the non-boy stuff. then again, isn't it great for boys to be able to see competent, self-sufficient women in leadership? Role-modeling can be based on the quality of a person, regardless of gender, and if a boy really admires a woman's knot tying ability, and s

whew... so many considerations, eh? the widowed (or otherwised) single mothers of boys with NO adult male figures NEED a chance to participate in the program, esp. if that benefits the boy and the family dynamics. This is not just single-parent sentimentalism - that mom becomes the family's participant and adult voice in all the non-boy stuff. then again, isn't it great for boys to be able to see competent, self-sufficient women in leadership? Role-modeling can be based on the quality of a person, regardless of gender, and if a boy really admires a woman's knot tying ability, and s

twin-wasp - do you think under the uniform example you give that the adults should or should not mention the problems that the boys will encounter during any 'competitive', inter-troop uniform inspection run by the books? should they point out the problem? or should they let the boys step into it and learn that way? or... just curious. and if fact, we don't know if the troop in ? didn't already address this in a Troop meeting versus Camporee kind of consideration anyway.

hi, pack - good to see you around. yeah, there are some inconsistencies, aren't there? my son just graduated Cubs, and our new Troop approached me wondering if I might be qualified to counsel certain merit badges - they query every new parent, of course. I ended up reading the Geology requirements, and based on some of the posts I've seen here, the option on fossils could raise a few hackles, as might the whole "8. Make a chart showing the geological eras and periods and show in what geologic time the rocks in your region were formed" for the 60-century crowd. Oh, well - all th

so - things are slowly sinking in but I'd just like to be sure - there's no jackhammer belt loop or chainsaw juggling merit badge? I'd just like to confirm, is all...

Jark, please, no offense intended here, but we all know there are 2 sides to every story. would you be able to put yourself on the other side of the fence and describe how your positions, comments and statements may have been taken? I doubt we'd get the CC, ASM et al to participate in this thread, so can you provide an even-handed, true-color picture of their perspectives? also, I'm curious - were the boys encouraged by adults in the dress code thing, or unchallenged or uncorrected or just ignored or... well, what? finally, I'd be interested in learning what suggestions