asichacker

Come to think of it....I have noticed that all of the non-Christian boys that moved up from SS's Cub Scout group are now gone. Of course, 1/2 of those that did AOL didn't move up anyway. What was 10 is now 4...

Camping at a farm would be pretty cool....definitely some current and useful lessons there.

Just remember to stay above in elevation) and upwind from the hog lot....that 5 AM feeding they do will burn your nose hair right out!

So, you need approval from the bureaucracy to use a facility that the owner has invited you to use?

Wow....

The ZT policy (Draconian or not) in the schools was brought about by the demands of parents (and society as a whole) because we had drifted away from it so much in the 70's-90's.

Since Scouts is an EC that supposedly holds to higher standards of behavior and morality, I would think the consequences would be at least as severe as our schools.

Of course, it's likely I haven't caught on to Scouts yet either..

$0.021416

I have a Stepson (SS) in Scouts.

I'm not involved...found that since I was not a Scout that there's no use for me there (they've made that obvious). My wife is heavily involved.

I don't see much benefit to the whole scouting thing...a lot of unnecessary risks...SM's and ASM's seem to be into the testosterone rush and rather than having the boys learn stuff that is useful in modern society.

Chaotic troop with no real leaders in the ranks.

I am tired of clean and putting away camping gear every few weeks so I can get my garage back. Seems the Scout won't do it.

Still, I'm trying to find a positive.....just no succeeding.

I agree 100% with Evmori...

You gave this kid a "pass" for fighting because you didn't want to make a scene at the campout.

Wrong answer.

Had this happened at your school, all of the kids would have been bounced from school for at least three days...

With an EC like Scouts, fighting MUST be an immediate and permanent ejection...no less.

Most of Scouting is about Testosterone, not survival.

You want to teach them something useful about the food chain, teach them how to farm and butcher properly so they are providing for more than just themselves.

Reality is that unless you're living in wilderness a majority of the time (which if you're posting here, you probably aren's), these activities provide nothing more than a "Yeah, when I was a kid I did _____."

Scouting is so arrogant.

FROM THE OP:

1. The objections of the LDS church is based on the potential for homosexual leaders in positions that are both "superior" in relation to their unit and out of their total control. (ex. District scouters and above)

Now that is an interesting concept....locally, I have been warned by more than one former scout and scout parent, to avoid interaction with the LDS based troops, because over the years that have taken men you have had issues with sexual misconduct and placed them in leadership positions in troops as part of a rehab.(This message has been edited by asichacker)

Here's why I'm not a Scout Leader.

Any boy engaged in aggressive behavior with another is immediately bounced from the outing and the troop that instant.

Actions have consequences...

Severe actions have severe consequences....

I thought teaching this responsibility thing is what Scouting was about?

Inappropriate at best.

Dangerous at the worst.

I'd pull my kid from your troop the instant that I heard of it.

Yeah, I have a lot of problems with the selective religious affiliations that the Scouts have as well. It's a tough nut for me to crack as well. I am a Christian, but I disagree with the Scouts having such a close affiliation with the Catholic Church and the LDS.

It seems that every community project they do around here has some attachment to the LDS. Hardly the pinnacle of most needy.

If you look at the history of Powell, it's not too hard to make the case of why the connections are the way they are.

I think the Scouts would be a much more beneficial organization without the affiliations.

In the end, you have to decide what is best for you son.

Good luck.(This message has been edited by asichacker)

Thanks for the reply Mike.

I've basically decided that BSA is not much more than a social-club/hobby for my SS.

Kind of an expensive hobby, certainly more than most, but less than some. The Troop leadership have made it clear that non-Scouts need not apply to help. So be it. I'm also not happy about the selective alliances and agendas that are pushed around...not appropriate for this day and age, that impact will have to be fixed before he gets much older.

I am going to have to put my foot down on his camping gear...if he want's to camp, somebody else but me is going to have to clean, maintain and put the gear away after the trips...that whole "responsibility" thing.

SS goes on his first Winter Camp this weekend.

Dumb idea, heavy snow pack this year (250% of normal), major melt in progress...no confidence in SM's and ASM's to call it quits when things get dicey.

SS is inexperienced, uncoordinated and doesn't think before doing.

Wow Lisabob...

Scouts evoking Hitler?

I would have be out of that troup that day! I guess the KKK does still run some troups after all.

At some point, the decision is not your son's...it's your's!

I've also heard, but not confirmed the following...

1) If you become injured on the trail, the Rangers will no longer "Mule" you out. Helicopter only, and you have to pay for the evac.

2) The Rangers now monitor more closely for rim-rim-rim hikers. They have the option to cancel your trek should they desire.

Someone I work with pointed something out about hiking the Canyon, especially for those not from the Desert SW.

When considering a Canyon hike, don't just look at the temperature at the Rim....also look at the temperature in Phoenix, because the temperature at the bottom is usually within 3-4 degrees of the temperature in Phoenix.

That's what killed that Scout some years back...insufficient water for Phoenix temperatures.

Northern Arizona has been in a drought for a couple of decades now.

Interesting topic on uniforms....

When I brought up the topic of Scouts to my son many years ago, he decided he wasn't interested solely on the basis that he didn't want to wear the uniform. My SS is a uniform fanatic, so I guess Scouting works for him on that level.

Makes you wonder how many more kids would be in scouting if it weren't for the uniform...

No DYB, I don't think I was harsh at all. He was condescending, so I fed it right back. He's a big boy, he can deal with it.

"Surely, as a baseball coach yourself, youve encountered parents of kids who think their son is the next Manny Ortiz, but who can barely swing a bat or, conversely, parents of kids with real talent who think Johnny is wasting his time playing ball and would be better served practicing the violin because, after all, they now whats best for their boy?"

Absolutely! I coach only Rec league ball of 13-14 yo's. Every season I'll have good players and players who have never played organized baseball (or any baseball) before. I talk to EVERY parent as well as every player to find out what their opinion of their abilities and their goals are. But in EVERY case, I and the Parent rule, not the player, apparently not so in Scouts. I don't put a first year player at third base, and I don't put a 14 year old in the Grand Canyon with a pack.

(This message has been edited by asichacker)

I would think that saying...

"If you're caught with food in your tent, you're getting sent home immediately." would work.

Nothing like getting Bears, Bobcats and Mountain Lions involved.

My parents did not permit me to join BSA when I was young (late '60's) because the troop (rural Central Ohio) was run by the local KKK. I didn't know this until I was a late teen...when an African-American family moved to town and promptly received threats, etc. They left town at the end of the school year.

I don't know if that is still the case, but that part of the state is far more integrated now.

I would not consider it an option for my Scout. Can't pack that much stuff, let alone coordinated enough to do it safely.

He can do it when he turns 18 and is responsible for his own mishaps.

Thanks Beaveh,

Your response, and the attitude it spews, is exactly the issue I have with my SS's troop.

"You weren't a Scout...so you don't know anything."

You've made my point in spades...

How about you try this on for size...

"You're (meaning my SS's SM, ASM's, PL's, AYO's whatever) aren't my SS's parent, so you don't know what his capabilities or limits are. And you cannot figure it out seeing him 1 or 2 hours a week."

Eh?

I've read your post a couple of times...as a non-Scout (wasn't a consideration when I was a kid)...I first thing I thought was...

...apparently, the adults (read parents) of the boys are not as confident in the abilities and decision making capabilities of their son's as what you apparently are.

PWC's an ATV's with pre-teen and teenagers?

No how, no way!

Let's remember here that the human brain does not analyze potential long-term consequences of decisions until the mid-20's.

From my own observations, I have never seen a PWC operated in a safe manner where the operator was aware and considerate of other in the area.

DYB-Mike asked:

"Do you feel more welcome than before?"

Not really. We all went to the "Court of Honor" a couple of weeks ago. About the same result as before.

"Have you followed up on the suggestions to get more involved with leadership or instructing?"

No. I really have nothing to contribure, and baseball season has started here, so I'm swamped with coaching.

"Is your son enjoying himself?"

Overall, I really don't think so. That would be evidenced in that it is becoming increasingly difficult to get him to meetings and events on time. His participation is driven more by my wife that it is any interest of his.

"Does he like camping?"

Yes. Very much so....that would appear to be the biggest draws to BS for him.

"Does he appear to be getting anything out of it?"

No....I would say that he does not.

"If you are still concerned with the chaos do you talk with your son about what you think is wrong and get his feedback?"

The chaos is still unbelievable, to say that any of these kids get anything out of this is utterly ridiculous. It's really not my place to delve into.