andrews

You still haven't dealt with why homosexuality is not immoral, but other sexual relationships "between consenting adults" are.

Defining deviancy down leads to making more and more acceptable.

To argue "things change" is a shaky basis for anything. Things change for the better AND for the worse.

>

What is there to "understand" about homosexuality? It is a pretty clear issue, and choice.

The "we can't judge" idea is a falacy, because we judge all the time. You even judge my stance as wrong. What is really being said is that no one can disagree with whatever is currently politically correct.

Brad

I heard they changed the time for the "ticket" to be completed to be within the 1.5 years after the course, instead of the 0.5 to 2 years after the course of before.

Brad

I have seen it elsewhere, but I think it missed this list:

It appears the lease was renewed for 25 years, with another 15 year option. Supporters of the Scouts outnumbered detractors something like 2 to 1. The Girl Scout lease was also extended.

Brad

And don't get discouraged if he temporarily falls back into old behavior. It sounds like a corner has been turned and its great that you are helping him make it!

Brad

You have to draw a line somewhere.

Sctmom, many of the religions you listed practice sexual ceremonies, at least in times past. Are they "acceptable" to the modern scout movement if they return to that? If not, what standard makes it wrong, according to your logic?

Note: I am not arguing what they do now, just a logical extension. Many "old" practices are being revived every day and it may not be long until we face just such a question.

Brad

It sounds like your Cubmaster is very confused on this issue.

I don't know of any restriction on committee members, except that they are an adult (probably 21, but it could be 18). Parents fill almost all committee positions in most packs, if not all of them.

You cannot be a den leader, cubmaster, or assistent cubmaster and a committee member at the same time, but I see no reason someone could not be a "committee member at large."

Brad

Rooster7 stated exactly what I was trying to - the perspective is different.

I would also note that your son can't look up to you and think, "I want to be a man, just like my mom." At least I hope not. Of course you can add things to his life that a man cannot, especially by giving him the feminine perspective.

It is the same, in reverse, with my own daughters. I have been spending a lot of time talking with my teenage daughter about how men think. But I fully realize I cannot model to her how to be a lady - I can only tell her about it. Children need both. And I want my daughters to have a good example of what a good husband is like so they make wise choices down the line.

I pray you do the same with your son about what a good wife is, and how important it is to treat her with respect and honor.

Brad

Brad

One comment on what sctmom wrote:

>>>>

Can I teach my boy to be a "man"? Yes, because I teach him to be an adult -- to think for himself, respect others and respect himself.

I would also add that we should be cautious of giving in to the widespread, but very incorrect idea that "private" behaviour like this can easily be hidden.

It might be possible to "keep it quite," but we are naive and foolish when we treat boys like unknowing automatons who don't notice anything beyond the present. Aren't we teaching them to be more aware of what is going on beyond just their immediate focus?

As I believe someone else noted, we shouldn't go hunting for such all the time, but neither should we ignore it when it comes out. If other leaders know about it, it is almost certain the youth do as well.

By the "don't judge" standard we shouldn't prescreen new leaders either....

Brad

As someone whose family has grown by adoption, I would concur completely with the statement quoted. Ours is the best that could have come out of a tough situation, but that doesn't make it ideal. Just because something isn't the ideal doesn't mean it is "bad," it just means it is not the best. Unfortunately the choices of others sometimes make "the best" unachievable.

Brad

How do you get 38 nights of camp (w/o summer camp) in during a year? 24 nights would be a 2 night campout each month.

Brad

I recall seeing that the adult per child ratio changed in the last year or two. If I remember correctly, it changed during the time I was a WDL, though I could be mistaken. I thought the current policy was the leader could watch his own son and another adult could watch the others.

I would like to know if I am wrong in this.

Brad

I thought it was the crew's decision on what their uniform is. Where does it say you must get district or council approval?

Brad

Working there is not hard, especially if you are not picky about where you work. Some spots are most likely filled due to connections, but I know there were a lot of food service slots open at the last Jamboree.

I attended the 1977 Jamboree as a youth and I was planning on working at this one (my old son attended with a local contingent), but I got laid off a month and a half before hand.

I hope to be able to go to the next one.

Brad

I am sure you could find someone who would be offended, given today's culture, but I too would be interested in knowing how they are received in general.

I do recall reading that no dances and such with religious significance are allowed, for the reasons sctmom mentioned.

Brad

I would lean toward having them split themselves into two patrols.

You might allow for two more months (for example) to get the numbers up before requiring this, but 3 in a patrol is a bit too few.

If participation in the PLC is the issue, you could allow for more to participate, especially with the lower numbers you have. Building a troop identity, and comeraderie among the boys might do a lot to train them to all be future leaders when you get cross over or other growth. 8-10 would make a reasonable "leadership patrol" in the future, especially if you lose one or two as normally happens.

Brad

I would concur that you should not hold yourself overly responsible. While you are supposed to provide a safe environment, you cannot play "mother hen" over the boys all the time. They need to learn how to act properly, even when not in your direct sight. I would probably work on that more, after the immediate need is dealt with.

Brad

A "lights out" and quiet time could also help some.

Since some people do want/need to get to sleep at a reasonable time (10pm?), requiring those being up later to be quiet and dark doesn't seem bad to me. They may be a little less of night owls if they follow this. Even if not, they might get to see some of the night they would otherwise miss while making bunches of noise.

Brad

Could you have a parents' meeting expressing just those concerns, in the same tone you wrote here?

Brad

In my current council (Longhorn Council, Fort Worth, Texas), you get "selected" by filling out an app and being the first to pay you full registration fee.

I don't know how it works elsewhere.

Brad

14 boys in one Webelos den? That is way too big!

I started my adult scouting career because my son's Bear den had about 12, and it was pandemonium.

Brad

P_Swigs, if the Scoutmaster was a compulsive liar, would you have a problem with that? Why or why not?

I don't see that on the adult application form either, but it would have a significant effect on both his role as an adult leader and on the boys he was trying to lead.

Brad

Rooster and I are in agreement again.

I don't know what we can do exactly, but someone who isn't willing to be "morally straight" should not be mentoring boys who are supposed to adhere to that tenet.

Just because something is acceptable in society doesn't mean it is a good idea for a Boy Scout leader.

Brad

I have a son who is very much like that. With probably a little too much "motivation" from dad (me), he got his First Class last July at a bit over 11, and is close to Star now (though I am trying to back off).

He has channelled a lot of the energy, but it remains there. I figure he will probably stay Star for quite a while, and maybe First Class if he doesn't finish another Eagle-required badge. This may be a good thing for him. His maturity needs to catch up, at least a bit, with his rank.

His older brother gives me hope though. About a year and a half ago, when he was a bit younger than my youngest son, he also lacked focus and many "life skills." While he was not as easily distracted, they both have been diagnosed with ADHD in the past. He still has a lot to work on, especially since he is becoming a teen in April (and what boy that age doesn't?), but he has matured a great deal and I figure if I give my other son a year or two, he will "catch up" as well.

My point is to agree with the other post that these things can work themselves out in time. I would not sign him off for anything he doesn't really know or do. And if he doesn't sign up for a leadership position, that should be the reasoning given for why he doesn't get one. Perhaps that will limit him until he is mature enough to control some of those urges. If not, then you could talk with him about his maturity level. Not need to focus on it now, since he has to meet the first requirement. I have gotten in trouble many times by talking beyond where I needed to talk.

Another thought would be to get him involved with some task that makes him responsible for something important. It might help him focus himself better, or at least see if that is possible now.

Brad

I will try asking her, though I do recall seeing the OWL on a recent list of all the "new" training classes.

Scountmaster Fundamentals had a lot of outdoor stuff in it.

Brad