Hal_Crawford

kenk:

Are you sure? The Suunto site uses the same term to describe the M3 and reviews at REI.com reference adjustable declination. I don't have an M2 at hand but I think they do have the same adjustable declinatation as the M3. By the way, the M2-D is on sale at REI for $14.99 (this is not a plug; I don't work for REI. I just saw the price when I was checking the specs and reviews at their website). I suspect the sale is through Labor day.

Hal

Amen, Kenk. Your scouts could be in for a shock if they go to Philmont. I also agree about teaching them to use GPS with map AND compass.

I use a Suunto M3-D and am very pleased with it. It was a gift but I would buy another if this one went missing. Things I like: adjustable declination, luminous dial, magnifying lens and 1:24K scale rule. Even if your eyes are young and you don't (yet) have to squint through bifocals the magnifying lens can be used to start a fire. I also like the little rubber feet that keep it from sliding on the map. I wish it also had a 1:50k scale as some of the AT maps use that scale but life's not perfect.

I have never had a compass with a clinometer. I am not sure if I would find it useful as I can generally tell if I am going up or down hill and if it is steep or not.

The M-2D looks like a good option for scouts if money is an issue ($10 cheaper).

Hal

Pack:

I don't have a lot of faith in steri-pens either. One of our scouts brought one on our high adventure trek this summer and it seemed to work which was a good thing when two filters stopped working and the third really slowed down. Water where we were was pretty clean so it might have been ok untreated. No way of knowing if the steri-pen actually did anything.

What I don't like is the cost, the fact that the water has to be clear and the fact that it relies on batteries.

I dislike boiling due to the time it takes to cool down to drinking temperature and the that it consumes additional fuel.

I dislike filters cause they clog.

I really dislike chemical treatment cause it isn't effective enough, it takes time and it often leaves a taste.

OK, I dislike everything.

Hal

Are there places that offer free web hosting to scout troops? Gee I don't know. Oh wait! Look at the right hand margin to the right of this screen. You might have to scroll up or down but there it is "Free Web Hosting at Scouter.com".

Some times the answer is right there all the time.

"Because if the Jamboree was next week, I don't think any of them would be allowed in".

According to the medical form FAQ's the weight limit will not apply to the Jamboree. I think the picture shows us why. Picture the headline, "Chief Scout Executive Too Fat to Attend National Jamboree". No, not gonna let that happen now are we?

Hal

One of my scouts noticed that where it says there are three ways to purify water (filtering, boiling and chemical treatment) is next to a picture of a steri-pen, a forth method (UV exposure) that they do not mention in the text. Oops!

Hal

Bacchus:

Get a dictionary, look up promiscuous and you will be able to answer your own question.

While we are on the subject of promiscuity, lets look at your screen name. Bacchus is the Roman name for the Greek god Dionysus. Dionysus is best known as the god of wine and grapes but he was also the god of sex and fertility. The Festival of Dionysus was a five day festival held in the Spring. The middle three days (called the agon from which we get our word agony) were days of theatre (tragedies like Oedipus Rex or Antigone and a Satyr play, a broad sex farce), drinking and promiscuous sex, lots of both.

I just wanted to point out that your screen name is the pagan god of among other things, promiscuity. Kinda ironic, ain't it?

Also, Dionysus (Bacchus) was often portrayed as having the characteristics of both sexes and his/her followers were known to swing both ways. Certainly, homosexuality was accepted by the ancient Greeks and Romans who followed Dionysus.

BTW, the fifth day of the festival (the Ecclesia) was a day of prayer and contemplation (and probably serious hangovers). One of the ceremonies involved assigning fathers to all the three month old babies conceived during the previous festival. These were fathers in the eyes of the gods and one of my professors maintained that this was the origin of the term "godfather".

This concludes our ancient history minute; we now return you to your regularly scheduled bashing of each others religions.

Hal

I don't think anyone nails edicts or theses on church doors anymore. More likely a sign that says "Under New Management".

"Sometimes I think God will just shake his head and say 'None of you ever got it. I said you had to love me and love each other. But you all got lost in the details'".

I share your vision of the Almighty. I also wonder if the next thing He will say is, "Now, lets talk about the things that you did to others in My name".

Hal

I'm not sure that un-married non-celibate heterosexual clergy can be ordained even if they are in a committed relationship. Of course, heterosexuals can legally marry but homosexuals can't in much of the country and the ELCA has no official policy on blessing same sex couples (seems like they should have taken care of that before allowing the ordination but what do I know?). It seems like they need a flow chart for determining eligibility.

Hal

Sounds like a great idea. Two resources that you can pick up at your friendly scout store or from scoutstuff.org. The new Scout Handbook comes with a timeline of scouting that has lots of tidbits. As someone has posted there are a lot of minor mistakes but I doubt that these mar your presentation.

The other is also the Scout Handbook or rather the reprint of the 1911 edition of Scouting for Boys. This includes all the requirements for rank, things like how to stop a team of runaway horses or what to do when faced with a rabid dog (kill it). There are also requirements for all the merit badges including Inventing... only two requirements, the first of which was to invent something and secure a patent for it, the second was to make a drawing or model of your invention. That MB did not last long.

There is also an admonition to take adults along when you go camping. I read that and thought if you didn't take the adults who would drive. Duh! They didn't drive to the woods, they hiked!

Are you affiliated with a scout troop? If they have been around a while they may have old Handbooks, Field Books or merit badge books. Ask if you can rummage through their library. Our scout troop was founded in the 40's and there are some really interesting merit badge books and other odd pamphlets including one on being prepared for a nuclear attack (not a BSA publication).

Hal

They discuss stalking in the new Scout Handbook. I was surprised to see them use the word.

Hal

"Because the change is one of interpretation. Morally straight is a general term which leaves a lot of room for individual interpretation."

I agree. When the Oath was written "straight" was the opposite of crooked just as gay was the opposite of sad.

Hal

At our camp if a new scout follows the program he will come home with Swimming, Mammal Studies and one of the handicraft merit badges (Basketry, Leatherworking or Finger er.. Woodcarving). In addition he will have a number of requirements for T-2-1.

There are some that go for the numbers in later years but most seem to be at camp for the fun... even if Mom thinks they were goofing off. I don't see a lot of scouts going for the low-hanging fruit. They usually go for the badges that are Eagle required or ones that are fun. Maybe part of this is because we go to a patrol cooking camp rather than a dining hall/merit badge mill camp (and no, I am not saying that all dining hall camps are merit badge mills). Patrol cooking seems to move the emphasis.

They don't go after the low hanging fruit at home either. For years I have told scouts that if they want to take something quick and easy they should do the Computers MB. For years the requirements were way beneath the skill level of most 12 year olds. The hardest part was learning some of the obsolete/historical information in the MB book. Even the re-written requirements are not challenging.

It's easy yet few of our scouts have taken it. Maybe they are just too lazy to call a MB councilor but I don't think so. Mainly they aren't interested because they use computers all the time and just don't see the challenge. They would rather learn something new or do something that is required for Eagle.

Hal

I like the way you put that Packsaddle. Let the market decide. Every conservative on this forum should be willing to go along with that.

Ed:

Perhaps I misunderstood you when you suggested that I was tossing my morals to the wind. Since I am not gay I assumed that my moral abandon was accepting homosexuality in others.

Hal

Ed:

So not only are all homosexuals immoral but all who accept them are immoral? If this doesn't come from religion then where does it come from? Do you decide what is and is not moral for the rest of us? Does the BSA?

Hal

That is wrong on several levels. I seriously doubt that they have BSA's permission to use the the Scouts pictures in commercial advertising. I would have a real problem with this as an Eagle project.

Pay $1500, plant a tree, mount a plaque; where is the leadership their? I suppose that a scout could use it as one element of a larger project but the cost is over the top.

Hal

Ed, for members of the ELCA it certainly does. For members of ECUSA it already was. In fact, many Christian religions accept homosexuals as members so it must to some degree be OK for them too.

Do you consider a religion that accepts homosexuals to be less of a religion? I am just wondering because under the Scout Law we are supposed to respect the beliefs of others.

Shortridge asked if the IH has to be a registered member and from what I can see they don't. They decide whether the organization will charter a unit, they sign the charter and they must sign the application for the COR.

While looking for this information on the BSA site I found some documents on how to sell various types of organization on starting a unit.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/NewUnitResourceKit.aspx

I looked at the Evangelic Lutheran kit and a couple others and they all include a section on overcoming possible objections. This is the one that struck me:

"We dont agree with several of the Boy Scout stands on membership.

We feel that as a private organization we have a right to establish our membership

requirements. I thank you for your time, but I feel that theres nothing further we can do at this time to help you."

That is the sound of a door slamming on a scout unit.

For all other issues (11 in total) they gave arguments to overcome the objection. This was the only one that ends the discussion. As more religions accept homosexuality it follows that this objection will come up more often. It is sad that fewer units will be formed and existing ones may be dropped by their COs because of this obstinacy.

I seems to me that each chartering organization, should be free to set their own standards of leadership in accordance with their beliefs.

Hal

Good for you (and good for them).

In our troop it is any scout First Class or above.

Hal

Ed:

No it wouldn't make it OK, which I already said, BTW. Neither would it make murder right if they said that pastors could kill people. But they don't and they wouldn't. It is apples and oranges and you know it. And that ain't spin.

Hal

Here is an article from the LA Times written by a Canadian doctor about the lessons to be learned from their system.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-rachlis3-2009aug03,0,538126.story

Hal

What? Are you saying that Tater Tot Hotdish lacks a certain "je ne sais quois"? (If I spelled that right my HS French teacher has just died and gone to heaven).

Of course not, Ed; animals are incapable of consent. Why do you equate homosexuality with bestiality? Do you believe that homosexuals are not human?

Hal