Greg Nelson

I'll cast a dissenting vote. I live in the DFW area, and the museum is ... OK. If you're already in town, it's certainly worth a stop, but it's not an all-day affair. An hour or two should satisfy. I wouldn't change any travel plans for this or make it a destination. Sorry.

The public school where our Pack meets (which is also the school all our Cubs attend) has granted us the use of half a bulletin board in the school's cafeteria. We plan to use this space to drum up interest in the pack, since crossover hit us hard, and we're now below 20 Cubs.

We have some generic Scouting material up there right now. I'd like to get more items specific to our Pack and the boys in it. Specifically, I'd like to put up some pictures of the Scouts on outings, clean-up days, and the like. I'd also like to post the monthly advancement list of who did what, both to motivate current Cubs and get others interested in the advancement part of Scouting.

Are we bumping up against any Scouting regulations or privacy laws if we post this information in what is a semi-public place?

I believe ScoutNut is correct. The Go See Its SHOULD be done as a den, but boys are allowed to make them up on their own if they miss the outing.

I'm reading between the lines here, but I'd guess that Peaceful1 is facing some parents who don't really CARE about their kids getting the Tiger Cub badge. You can give them all the second chances and extra time in the world, and it still won't get done.

Once these kids get a little older, then THEY apply the pressure on the parents - "Mom! Sign me off for this, or Johnny will make Bear before I do!" But, right now, if the parents aren't motivated to help the kids finish, you're out of luck. You might be better off cutting bait and moving on to the Bobcat badge.

Also, I don't think the "can only work on one rank at a time" applies to Bobcat. I was looking up this exact point in the Wolf Handbook. Our current Tiger Cubs will have Bobcat before summer camp, but we will have a new scout there who will not have earned the badge yet. I was trying to see if the new kid would have to complete his Bobcat before getting credit for the Wolf achievements at camp. I saw nothing that said he had to do so. Shoot me if I'm wrong.

Great work on the Tiger Cub year, BTW. That's more than we've done, and WAY more than most Tiger Cub dens do. You have nothing to feel defensive about. Maybe some of the parents don't notice or appreciate the work, but the boys will. Not until they have kids of their own, but they'll notice.

Wow, that's a tough situation.

First off, you did the right thing by packing up and leaving. A lot of leaders would have offered to "make it right" with the campground owners on their own.

It's not surprising that the boy or boys who stole the stuff didn't want to come forward. The same character flaw that made them think it's OK to take stuff from other people makes them think it's OK for others to suffer for what they did.

I'd be more concerned with the boys who knew what happened and said nothing, both while it was going on and afterwards. They probably don't want to "snitch" on their friends. I think it's great that they had to suffer the consequences for THAT action. You're not punishing innocent scouts at all (except for the ones at Wal-Mart with you). Every scout that was in that room is guilty.

I don't have any good advice for where you go from here, but so far, you've handled everything in an exceptional manner.

Scoutndad:

Before you go off and do something that might chase a boy and his family away from Scouting, think through the effects of your choices.

In particular, in what scenario is the boy more likely to experience spiritual growth - in Scouts, or out of Scouts? 10-year-olds are far from fully-formed people.

There's what you CAN do, and what you SHOULD do.

So the mom won't let you confer with the boy about religion, which means that you can't sign the boy off on this. You CAN deny this boy his Webelos. You SHOULD designate someone else, perhaps your assistant den leader (who, coincidentally, is also the boy's dad) to cover this requirement. This is probably the easiest way to edit mom out of this loop, without making the son pay for the shortcomings of the mother.

While we're at it, does anyone have an opinion on the timing of the award? If we have graduating Wolves who have completed all the Wolf requirements except camp, do they get the award after camp? Or do they need to satisfy the Bear requirements, as they become Bears at the start of the summer? For that rate, can the boys apply what they've done as Wolves, or do they need to fulfill the requirements while they are Bears?

Yeah, now that I've had a good night's sleep and a relaxing Sunday morning, I've been able to let it go. I just need to focus on what I can control, and that I have a good set of kids in my den and and least one parent who's willing to help with the load.

How is it that these parents don't "forget" when Pinewood Derby is, or when we go bowling?

I just have to accept that I did all I could as a den leader. I showed up, drove my boys to their limits, and even stopped by our missing Tiger's house and let the others coax him into participating, at least on his own street, over his dad's wishes (GRRR!)

It's kinda like being mad at the driver who cut you off, when that guy doesn't even know who you are. These no-show parents don't even realize how much they hosed the poor kids who turned out for this. They couldn't think beyond, "Johnny doesn't like to get up before noon on Saturday."

Our den has opening for next month's pack meeting. I'm thinking of writing one with the kids pitching a tent or something, while one kid after another quits on the job, leaving one kid to do the whole thing. Problem is, the message would just sail over the intendeds' heads.

It's just making me angry, thinking about all the people who will be so proud of their boys with their Arrows of Light (3 out of 13 showed) or Bear Badges (1 out of 13 showed). Should our pack be proud of anything when 3/4th of them can't show up for one blessed hour to help with a food drive that we have committed to? How do I let it go?(This message has been edited by Greg Nelson)

We went over our expectations for the event at our committee meeting just 6 days ago, where all the den leaders were present. Granted, it may have been forgotten in the subsequent battle royale over Blue and Gold details. Still, the den leaders were well aware. Heck, some of them were just about the only ones who showed.

The patch award is a good idea - I'll run that by my CM. He's a pretty mellow guy, though, so he might not want to make kids feel bad by being left out. My Cubmaster put as much time and effort into this as he could be expected to - he can't get out his shotgun and force kids to get out of bed and help the pack.

I've seen this kind of behavior from one or two of the den leaders before. All hat, no cattle. So I was disappointed, but not that surprised. The extent of the disinterest was disheartening, though. The guy organizing this really put a lot of time and work into this, even though his kid is getting his tonsils out next week. I'm sure he's more irked than I am, and I doubt he'll be very interested in helping out on something like this in the future.

Thanks for the suggestions for next year.

OK, just let me vent.

Our Cubmaster asked one of the dads in my Tiger Cub den to organize the Scouting for Food drive for our neighborhood. He did a great job of putting out flyers, placing an announcement in the school newsletter, and telling all the Scouts and their parents about the drive at our last pack meeting.

Well, when today rolls around, I drive over to the school with my Tiger Cub and see - that dad and his wife and kids. NO ONE else from the pack is there. A bit later, our Cubmaster shows up and agrees to hit a couple of streets with his boy. The Wolf den leader shows up with her son, and a Webelos mom has three of them in tow.

That's it. Sum total of Scouts showing up - 2 Tiger Cubs, 1 Wolf, 1 Bear, and 3 Webelos. We "did our best", and worked for several hours, but there are limits to how much work you can expect Tigers to do. There were many streets that went uncovered, because we had so many AWOL Scouts. When Scouts don't show up, the work doesn't go away - it just makes the burden harder on those who ARE there.

The whole scene makes me want to take a hike with my (small) den and hook up with a larger, more active pack at a nearby church. My Tiger Cub dad who organized the drive is thinking the same thing. Why should we bust our rears for a group that just wants to take, take, take, but never give anything back?

For example, out of the 13 Bears who were at Pinewood Derby last month, ONE showed up today. NONE of them even had the courtesy to let us know they couldn't be there - they just stiffed us. These boys and their parents couldn't be bothered to help with the food drive, but you can be d*** sure they'll all be there next week at our Blue and Gold banquet, ready to pick up their sons' badges. How do I keep from busting an artery when those moms are up there smiling and beaming about what a good Scout "Johnny" is?

I vote for August as well. I've been there 5 times, as early as Memorial Day and as late as the week after Labor Day. If you go in May or June, the bug problem is lessened, but not eliminated. You pay a terrible price, though - it's ---- near impossible to swim in the lakes at that time of year - they're still too cold. If you go in August, you'll find the boys spending hours swimming.

Where does it say that your troop HAS to have a Librarian or Historian, or that it has to let anyone who wants to fill the position?

If, as it stands, you think the position is a joke, either revise the expectations, or elminate the position (and with it, the potential for abuse).

(This message has been edited by Greg Nelson)

Original poster here - glad to see this topic has stimulated discussion.

My personal views are along the lines of the last few posters. Let me play devil's advocate here, though.

Suppose we're in an alternate universe where my den went to the fire station in Sept., but Jimmy and Johnny couldn't go. In this situation, the den isn't expected to do ANOTHER Go See It for these two kids, so they're on their own to satisfy the requirement.

If Jimmy goes on the school field trip, would that satisfy the requirement? Most of us would say yes.

For that matter, suppose Johnny's dad claims that a fire truck came by their neighborhood party, and that should count as a fire station tour. I'm making this ridiculous on purpose, but in the end, the handbook makes clear that it's not my role as den leader to challenge Akela's (the parent's) decisions. If Johnny's dad honestly thinks Johnny has fulfilled the requirement, that's the end of the story in Cub Scouts, as I understand it.

We haven't talked formally about this as a den, so the dads might be OK with going again. I just don't want to get into a situation where we schedule a Go See It, and half the kids play hooky with their dads' blessing.

???

In short - can my parents count a field trip as a Go See It, and free up space for another event?

Got cut off.

I was planning to still do the Go See It as a den, since I thought a tour with a small group with someone you know working there would be nicer. But, some of the dads are pushing to just sign off on the Go See It and do something else in January.

So, should I hold my ground and i

Let me pick y'all's brain here. Here's the situation.

We were planning to do our fire/police station Go See It in January, at the fire station where our Cubmaster is a firefighter. However, our school's 1st grade has scheduled a field trip to a different fire station next week.

I was planning to still do our Go See It at ou