Gold Winger

"will to do" and "skill to do" have to do with the program and not how someone dresses. A uniform is a uniform. Being properly uniformed in a current uniform or an older uniform has not bearing on the program.

I didn't know that Borland still existed. A far cry from the days of Turbo Pascal and Turbo C and Phillipe Kahn toddling on the licorice stick.

"But cross him to his chosen troop at that time, with all the ceremony you would othewise afford your Webelos (at B&G, or whenever your Webs join a troop)."

Would he be able to cross over in April without the AOL if he isn't 11 yet? Isn't it AOL & 10.5, 11 or 6th grade?

I'd put him with the other 5th graders and let him (and mom) know what the rules are regarding cross over.

Nothing says that he has to cross in February, March or whenever with the other boys. If earning AOL is important to him, he can stick around with another den until June.

I've never heard of a pack asking a sibling to stop coming to pack meetings. I wonder why they didn't want her there.

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Never mind John, to borrow from the Great Philospher of Mayberry, Barney Fife, Texas is a nuuuut.

Good grief! You are a nut.

"Maybe the needs of 1 (Gold Winger) needs to be contolled to the needs of protecting Scouts."

Hmmm. . . . I'm trying figure out if that makes sense. Not really but I'll go on.

Texas, did I tell you to shut up? No. I said that you were told to shut up and do your job. Big difference.

If you get off of your Texas sized horse and read what I wrote, I'm one of the ones who said to take your issues to the CC and COR. However, I'm guessing that you don't want to do that because they'll probably tell you "just clam up and do your job or quit." Instead, you seem to want to stage a coup.

For whatever it was worth, I thought that you had some genuine issues with your SM. I see that I was wrong.

You come off as a certified nut. Half baked allegations about what your SM is doing on campouts with "friends." Now, wanting to stage a coup.

Thank you for playing, have a nice day.

"Granted it's a volunteer group, but I know of no school, church, adult group, etc. that thinks a 95% dropout rate to be "Okay"."

Oh, it happens all the time. Look at sports. Thousands of kids play recreation basketball. Fewer play middle school ball and finally only ten get to play for the high school team. Why? Some drop from lack of interest, others drop from lack of talent.

Hey BeeDubya, a uniform is a uniform no matter how old. So a properly worn old uniform serves the same purpose as a properly worn new uniform.

"For me, someone who is "pushy" about being a SM or an ASM is a red flag, eh? That says that da person for some reason really wants to have contact with kids, rather than just help the program. Creepy! Possible predator behavior, or at least someone who is goin' to be a risk and disruption."

Oh, sheesh! An ASM says, "Gee, I think that I could do a better job" so you think that he's a pervert.

I may have said this before, if you have real issues bring them up to the CC and COR. If they say, "We're happy . . ." there's not much else you can do except to help the current SM and maybe nudge him into what you think is the correct path. Of don't be surprised if he tells you that your help isn't needed anymore.

Of course the CC could say, "Do you think that you could do a better job?" or he might say, "We've been thinking of a change, can you recommend a replacement."

So now you've been told all possible things from "Shut up, do your job and suffer" to "talk the people in charge."

It will be a curiosity just because it is different. Just like if you showed up wearing a kimono.

However, it is a proper uniform and you can wear it. If nothing else, it may spark some interest in some of the other leaders. Being different is not a bad thing.

BeeDubya fusses too much about "the program" and likes to quote the book because the book is the program. Now he's fighting himself because he doesn't see how your actions will help the program but they are by the book and, hence, part of the program.

Logic is a pretty flower that smells baaad.

Wear it with pride.d As I said before, I'd go with period correct patches if you can find them.

Gotta ask, what's a level 2 instructor?

If one of these "level 2" instructors handed someone a gun without safety orientation, he just broke more than a few rules. It might be "cool" but it isn't according to Hoyle.

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" Think of it like being high school football coach. You don't get to "put your name in" because you want to be your kid's football coach. Yeh don't get to decide whether the coach current coach is retained. Da school considers candidates when it has a vacancy, and looks at qualifications and fit for the program. Scoutin' is the same."

You must not know many ADs or have much experience with high school sports or your metaphor wouldn't be so off base.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

" "Leave No Trace" is dishonest BS."

"Hey Scoutmaster! Can we carve our initials in this big oak tree?" "Sure, to do otherwise would be dishonest."

Yeah, it really is bad to not cut down trees, build roaring fires in the woods, and trample flora.

The website for the vile people who want us to preserve the outdoors

http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles.php(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the sad truth is that for too many of our youth, adventure is a video game. So the promise of going off into the woods doesn't appeal to them. "Wot! Like no cell phone. How can I text my buds? No ipod? I gotta have my tunes."

We old codgers ran amok without parental supervision. Going inside to play was a last resort. We explored neighborhoods, the woods, the railyards, the city.

Sports are far more attractive to kids and many parents because there is instant gratification. The coach revs them up before the game. After the game, they're given pizza and soda. In Scouting you hike 10 miles and then get to clean your gear. Wow! Sure, you learned alot on that hike but if you're 13, you won't realize it for about 13 more years.

"Scouting does have unfortunately received the label of being for the "nerds and dorks" to quote some teens when I asked them about trying scouting."

It's the counter-culture thing that swept the nation. Marshall Dillon, James West and Sgt. Saunders are no longer the heroes of the youth of today. The Beach Boys aren't the hot group anymore. Being a good kid isn't popular today and Scouts are supposed to be good.

Apache Bob, bear in mind that urban legends are different than tradition. BeeDubya doesn't understand the difference but there's much about this world that BeeDubya doesn't understand.

"You are in no position to be able to comment on what other peoples standards might be."

You told us what your standards are, as you often have.

" There is no BSA endorsed rules or "tradition" "

You really don't understand the meaning of tradition, do you?

Yep, that's it.

However, since you're not going as a Scouter and only representing yourself, there's no need to wear the dress uniform.

What you described earlier is perfectly acceptable. As would be a grey suit. Or a tweed jacket and dress pants.

Funny thing is, the only professional that I've ever seen in the Dress Uniform is the manager of the Scout Shop. The DE, SE, and all others if they aren't in the tan and green uniform, they're wearing "appropriate business attire."

Have fun.

"when will national get into the 21st century and put the books online to download for a small fee?"

The problem with that is that it shifts the printing costs to the Scout or the unit and also increases waste.

Instead of going to the troop library to get a fairly durable book, the Scout prints out his own copy. "Pass it on. . ." you say but by the time the Scout is done with 20 pages stapled together with no cover, it will be tattered and the next Scout will print his own copy.

I like books with covers.

Sounds good to me.

I wonder if your uncle is confused by the "Scouter Dress Uniform" which is a blue blazer and grey trousers, on the blazer pocket you wear a patch to indicate which program you're involved in (Cubs, Boy Scouts, Venturing)? To many the logical extension would be to wear an Eagle patch. But that's not "by the book"

You should expect better. Unfortunately, it's all done by volunteers which means a couple of things. Some folks don't take it seriously and think that they can wing it. Sometimes things just fall through the cracks. Looks like both happened to you.

Nooooo . . . However, it is acceptable to wear your Eagle medal on a sport/suit coat.

If you did choose to wear an Eagle patch on your jacket, most likely no one would call you out for it but they would talk about you after you left. "Did you see that guy with the Eagle patch?"

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Hmmm . . . looks like "save a penny, waste a dollar."

I'm for protesting the new Chinese made uniforms by encouraging troops to go without uniforms until production is returned to our hemisphere.

I think that is common at Eagle Courts or some variation. All of the Eagle Courts that I've been to have had all the Eagles stand and do the oath.