Fuzzy Bear

Once again, tears. Words only compel us to seek reason, which there is none. fb

The neckerchief has become a tradition. Boys like traditions. I enjoyed the video from National that provided us with a realistic look of the programming in Scouting. The uniforms are representative of Scouting today. The music was good. Scouting moves ahead as always. fb

I realize someone out there may have the answer but I hope it is never decided on as a hard line issue. If Scouting used potato or potatoe sacks for uniforms at one time or the other, I would not object if a Scout showed up wearing one. fb

Pack,

It is too bad that the boys would rather get it off the wall because it will leave them short on reliable knowledge.

Many times in working with young people, we find ourselves on a path without a map. If we don't have time to consult the Forum or have the advantage of having a group of former leaders to give us counsel, then we are left to prayer. It doesn't mean that we are on our own either but generally the "still small voice" is just not loud enough.

Having saved up a good supply of patience and loving kindness is just about as good as we can do. When we do make the wrong decision, it sometimes takes us to places we couldn't have gone otherwise.

We must always remember, WWLSD? (*Lem Siddons)

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OGE,

The "petard" that you speak of has three alternative definitions; one of which we desperately need to understand your true meaning.

1. a bomb (known to have caused considerable discourse regarding a recent Eagle Scout BOR thread).

2. a firecracker (also outlawed by Scouting but generally regarded as youthful exuberance)

3. breaking wind (not usually discussed but then you may have broken tradition).

We are waiting for enlightenment. fb

I deal with droves of kids that are leaving high school. The goal that I share with them is employment and training for employment. Sexuality is a must subject or one might wind up with child or worse with a disease that is not compatible with the work environment. On more than one occasion, young females beginning their training for employment have attended an after hours party, met a stranger across a crowded room and the rest is up to you to figure out because I have usually been stumped. Young people and parents that hardly have the money for their son or daughter to attend school are then faced with hospital bills and the right to obtain an entry level job with minimum wage. Most do not have health insurance or a bank account. Generally, the stranger in their life is gone or in worse financial or physical shape than they are so as to add an extra burden. It is not always this bad but when it happens, it is never pretty.

When I speak about sexuality, I find that several have already made inroads but seldom without a reality check. Many young people may not believe what they are hearing. Few watch the news, so rumor and intuition tends to fill in the blanks for them. I would encourage adults/parents to speak frankly about sexuality. I find the alternatives to be less than desirable.

I really wish it were as simple as getting good training for a job, getting a good job, getting a good husband or wife and settling down to have good children in a good home. Until that prayer is answered, we may be better prepared by communicating effectively with each other. fb

(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

In my area of the country, we do these things (on the video) and more and our numbers keep growing. The uniform doesn't seem to be a problem, although I personally feel it is too expensive and isn't compatible with Action Scouting. I am guessing that numbers dip in various areas for any number of reasons. There never has been a one answer fits all. It may be that specific areas of the country need a happy/sad face review to rethink directions. Program is usually a key but not always. It may be attitude, leadership, lack of resource management, communication, on and on.

I went to Philmont as a Scout in the early sixties. I paid my own way, bought my own equipment, and prepared by planning and carrying out several Troop expeditions. As we reached the New Mexico mountains, I felt like I had gone to Scout Heaven. Today, I view the Philmont website and the program has gone beyond anything I could even hope for as a youth. The idea is that Scout Heaven can be found beyond Philmont, maybe in your own backyard.

I am still 40 years later thankful for the adults that supported our program. fb

When I sit quietly on the side of a hill and look out upon the vast expanse of stars and consider the universes possible birth through an inflationary expansion that started from a mere supercooled Higgs field with random quantum jumps within 10 X 35 seconds and/or the relaxation to zero energy and pressure throughout all of space causing a repulsive force and the consequential enormous burst/bang that brought us from the smallest clumps of matter hurtling forward billions of years to fill the voids and to spawn life on the earth with the smallest of bacteria, dinosaurs, people, cultures, nations, armies, conquers, kings, democracies, and Britney Jean Spears and then I consider the sexual proclivities and sanctions of my fellow man; I find a kind of symmetry that I never expected. fb

The film is an accurate portrayal of the Scouting program. It gives potential Scouts good information on what to expect. fb

Ed,

My opinion would be based on the reason the Scout made a bomb not based on him being convicted.

Several reasons- Was he effectively represented in court? Was there a plea bargain involved? Was the judge making an example of this Scout? That is just a few of the reasons.

Also:

Once a person has been charged and the punishment meted out and the person completes the punishment, I am willing to listen to what the individual has decided to do. I am not willing to continue the punishment phase. I have not been appointed their personal lifelong judge.

I would rather a person make a decision to become a productive citizen than be a convicted felon for the remainder of their life. I believe that a person pays for a crime and the bill is paid in full. (I also realize that there are circumstances that prevents this from happening but I (hope)do not believe this is one of them.)

So, I would like for the full judgment and punishment phases to be completed prior to having an EBOR. This would allow me to inquire about the specifics but not use the "convicted felon" label to influence my vote.

I am conflicted about this but I want the Scout to have the full benefit of a well informed judgment on the matter of the Eagle. fb

Hops,

If you are listening, here it is from my point of view one more time.

The resume thing was never a consideration for me.

I learned how to advance, achieve, and get there in Scouting. The Eagle badge has been a personal reminder about who I am all of these years.

Example one: I left the swimming pool that day during my first Summer Camp. I failed the floating by inflating a pair of jeans requirement. I was afraid. The Swimming instructor told me that my older brother would be disappointed. I was embarrassed at myself. I returned the next day and went through the drills but with determination. I couldnt have cared less about my brother knowing. Deep inside, I knew that I could do it. It was a small but insightful victory over my own self. I later finished most of the aquatic MBs and years later did it all over again a few times to prepare myself to instruct many other Scouts that faced the same fears that I once had.

Example two: I went over to Mr. Ps house to get my First Aid MB. He turned me down because I was not prepared. He told me to read the book and come back. Each week for the next three months I was turned down and each week I read and reread the book until I was suitably prepared by Mr. Ps rules, not mine. I learned that I expected to get something just for showing up. Mr. P. was right about me and knowing exactly what I needed. I learned that preparation means work. I still know the things I learned from him over forty years ago.

Example three: In the OA, I stood up and said that I was going to learn to Indian Dance and anyone that was interested could join in. A dance team was started. I got out a Ben Hunt book and built my own costume. I (we) then learned to dance by the step chart. People joined in and we danced at Cub Scout Blue and Golds and wherever anyone gave us an invite over the next few years. I received the Vigil based on the actions that raised a dance team that kept on after I left.

The Eagle and the God and Country came easily once I learned some things about myself and years later it was the District Award of Merit and the Silver Beaver.

College was full of trials for me. The things that I learned from Scouting were brought back to me many times over. I struggled but finished several graduate degrees, certificates, licenses. I could also make a long list of my failures in life and the things that I have learned about myself right up to this day. Beyond all else, the Eagle badge has been the one reminder that makes me look at me and what I am and where I have been and what I can be.

I continually hear adults tell that they are First Class, Star, and Life, as if they kept their rank from their youth. There are no adult patches for those ranks but there is one for Eagle. I wear it and it reminds me of the many stories about my youth and my friends.

For me, it shines beyond all other accomplishments. fb

Was the purpose of the bomb to blow up a trash can lid just to watch it soar or was the bomb to be used to blow people up? It makes a difference. This is a question that the civil court should decide and not the BOR. I would allow the legal process all of the time it needs to make their decision and complete all punishment before making any decision at the EBOR.

Hops, Making the decision to complete your Eagle shouldn't have anything to do with resume building (*it is secondary). It has to do with a distinction that is part of your personal life as a youth/Scout. It is a symbol that you will reflect back on for the remainder of your life. If you fail to complete it, you will reflect back on that failure as well. If you have read the writings of so many adults right in this forum over your four years tenure, then you will know that they attest to this statement as well. fb

How about making this a political statement? For those that follow the uniform rules as stated by the BSA, they are in the Blue Status and for those that do not follow the uniform rules as stated by the BSA, they are in the Red Status. For those that wear every ribbon and button but do it properly, they are Blue Status Snobs and for those that wear just a few of their ribbons and buttons but do it properly, as being Blue Status Weenies. For those that wear every ribbon and button and do it improperly, they are Red Status Snobs and for those that wear just a few of their ribbons and buttons and do it improperly, as being Red Status Weenies.

*These remarks are not directed at any one person or group of people that inhabit the earth or any corner of the known or unknown parts of the universe. They are not meant to hurt, ridicule or otherwise impart any kind of BSA knowledge or raise the intended level of knowledge or intelligence level whatsoever. Hopefully these remarks can be taken as humorous, as was initially intended and not as having any worth beyond their intended use, which might unintentionally close the before stated Thread. fb

I agree with the leadership skill of Setting the Example with the uniform. I dont agree that anyone should be made to follow that example. Solitary behaviors regarding the uniform are not of high importance but most likely are representative of a persons feelings about the BSA and may impact an adults standing with a few. Some adults place high importance on the uniform standards with complete disregard to other areas that may be in need of repair. With an association that places high value on character, it may be that the we take a closer look at personal behaviors on the first go round. fb

I took the old WB course in 82. I never got the idea that I was totally trained. I knew that working ones ticket resulted in getting your beads and I later discovered the tickets one worked after that was where the real leadership began. I also was invited to serve on staff which was a great highlight. One of my desires was to return to WB and do it all over because of the many benefits and life changes. I didnt expect there to be a new one developed so that I could actually do it. I will now be able to experience it again under the new system in a year or two. I intend on putting more personal writing time on this next one. I failed to document much of what I did the first round. I still have many good memories of it. I am happy to know that changes were made and it looks like some things will be familiar. I am looking forward to the best that Scouting has to offer. fb

Ok, thanks for the update on the use of the term, Kool-aid to imply that I am aimlessly following along. It doesnt fit with what I do nor do I see it with anyone else here. What I do see is that there are many differing opinions on many subjects. Some opinions seem to warrant more consideration than others because of the amount of insightful knowledge used to arrive at some of their conclusions. It is rare that any of us change political persuasions simply because someone makes a good argument for a candidate or their positions. I do grow tired of those that believe that the present administration is perfect in every way and that the last one was imperfect in every way. It is that kind of extremism that violates freedom of speech by painting the opposition with anti-American slogans. I dont find that kind of rhetoric to be any better than the commercials they were derived.

Once again:

I agreed with Bush about going to war about the WMD but they were not found. I dont believe that he lied about WMD.

He did lie about us not being Nation Builders and then he turned around and is doing it. He said it and now we are in the midst of a storm that can only get worse. People are getting killed over his lie so there is no comparison with Clinton lying about his extra-martial affair(s). I dont agree with lying from any candidate because people get hurt but when people die, it is time to confess and turn things around. fb

eagle-pete,

I agree that the BOR should be held and that they should make their decision. If I swayed your vote a little the other direction because I don't like kids making and having bombs with them these days, then I apologize. I simply wanted to know if there had been an investigation. My question about the Mother's defense concerns me because she apparently doesn't believe her son to be guilty of an offense. It may be that there really is a reasonable doubt. If there isn't any other circumstances other than she agrees that kids should make and have bombs with them then she should be heard as well, especially if it goes to the District level. People need to be aware of her view for safety's sake. fb

Pack,

The Jim Jones scenario doesnt fit with what Uz2bnowl said but then he has an opportunity to explain.

uz2bnowl,

Your insinuation that my political opinion is based on drug usage is inappropriate and reflects poorly on your ability to control your anger. You may state your political opinion as you see fit but engaging in personal affronts will only keep us from enjoying each others company later. fb

David and I were campmates at Philmont back in 64 with tarp type tents. He never said too much so I followed suit. We began our first evening without the Ranger which meant we were trained and ready. It rained. David set the tent up since I was elsewhere. I ran back to camp, grabbed my gear and got in my side of the tent. I thought that I would take a nap because it was cool out. It was also uncomfortable because my head was kind of downhill. After a few minutes, I noticed David moving to the middle where our gear was stored. Next he was on top of it because water was running down his side. Then I noticed my side getting the same treatment. Next, both of us were crowded on top of the equipment trying to stay dry like rats. Nothing was said until he looked over at me and said, gully washer. We then proceeded to go outside and find a flat spot away from the hill while the rain continued to soak us. I suppose we never really finish training. fb

Trev,

There are so many and all with different opinions; some that can stir the pot without a ladle from a distance. At first, I don't think we should identify ourselves to see if we can figure out who each person is by listening to them speak from across the room. Seeing each other in person is probably disorienting, similar to listening to someone on the radio. I don't think we could ever be the same after finding out about each other in person and that would be just fine. fb

I couldn't agree more, especially when all of the examples they have are the likes of Bush, (we both agree on Foley), Lott, (Silver Buffalo) Rummy and the gang. It is hard to know what is right any more. fb

Gonzo1

Pro ball lost its flavor when J. Jones took over the Cowboys and summarily got rid of the only Coach they ever had but then went on to win a few Superbowls with old College Coaches. I still tune in to a game or two on Sundays of whomever is on and root for both teams. I just cant get that stink out of my nose no matter how good a job he did. The same thing happened with baseball when they started paying astronomical salaries. I am happy the Cards won this year because they won with a bunch of retreads. No matter what, I can call a play as good as any other Arm Chair QB.

You and I may very well vote on the same issues from time to time, so there is hope of crossing over party lines in spite of our differences.

If we ever meet at a Scout camp, I wont hesitate to give you a hug but only if we have two-deep leadership and cobbler.

In a year or two, we should put out a request for any and all in the forum to meet at Philmont for a specific training session. Sitting under the azure sky in Gods Country may heal all wounds and bring new understanding to those that have weathered the many storms of the Internet Scouter Forum. fb

baden,

Since this has been a hear-say story, did you find out if there was an investigation by the law? What happens if he was stopped for speeding and he had firecrackers and a pipe in his car by accident? What happens if someone else made it and it was meant to inflict harm on him? What happens if he made it to hear a big explosion in the woods horse-play joke? What happens if he meant to harm somebody else? Why is the Mother defending him if he is not guilty? Why are the others condemning him for something they believe to be associated with a crime? Do we wrongly judge anybody holding a bomb these days?

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The defense of "horse play" or 'the youthful experimental nature' or youthful exuberance in contrast to the multiple thousands of killings, terrorism, war, and violence as seen and heard in the news, net and TV on a daily basis is overwhelmingly difficult to even begin to comprehend. I am left to conclude that many here must be out of the loop as well. If that is the case, then this young man should be totally exonerated for his lack of knowledge and be let go with a slight warning or a reprimand to watch an occasional newscast. It may be that he should not only be given his Eagle but also promoted as the Man of the Year. As for the multitudes of people that this kind thing has impacted, I doubt they will look favorably upon his antics or the resulting inactions. fb

One problem with the "pipe bomb horsing around" scenario is that it was not a Service Project or a joke and its intended use could only be a great disservice and horror. With all of the school killings and hatred as a backdrop, this incident has no place in Scouting or the community. Scouting is not an activity that is disconnected from the community either. I am unsure what anyone means by "horsing around" but pipe bombs no longer hold the kind of humor they once did. I am unsure if they ever held any humor. What else could they be used for except to harm someone? Being a citizen of the home, community, nation and the world is pretty shallow if we intend or threaten senseless harm to others.

I understand the SM's anger and embarrassment because of the Scout's actions. It also is a reflection on the SM. He most likely wants to get as far away as he can from this Scout. I am surprised that the SM hasn't already resigned.

I agree that the committee owes the Scout a BOR and hopefully a 100% rejection. The Scout can take his appeal on the road so that somebody else may come to understand this kind of thing as something other than what it is and I hope they don't agree that it is "horsing around" because it isn't even close. fb