flmomscoutw3

FB, I just read your post and the replys. I hope things have had a chance to turn around since Feb. If the CA is saying out loud that he is thinking of quitting I hope he did. That is the time for new adults to come in and advise. I will be eligible for brotherhood at the fall fellowship, so I am quite new to OA. What I have observed from the most successful chapters is POSITIVE adults.

This last weekend at summer fellowship we had 60 youth in attendance with our current chapter which included 9 ordeals, 4 brotherhoods, 6 elegamats. My boys and I will be moving to a new chapter this fall when we change troops after summer camp. Our new chapter had 2 youth and 2 adults in attendance, but after speaking with the CA I feel good about the move. He tells me they have 10-15 active youth, most were on a troop camp out this weekend. The CA is very positive and looks forward to every meeting to see how the cheif and vice-cheifs follow thru with their meeting plans. Even though the chapter is small the lodge is large and very active. Is your chapter involved with the lodge? Others have said get the lodge involved, but how about encouraging the youth to get involved in the lodge as well.

our chapter cheif is young, but excited and looking forward to a year of cheerful service and fun. The troop we will be joining has 3 members who were tapped for OA, but have not been able to do the ordeal. They are planning on going during the fall fellowship. I will be going thru brotherhood at that time and am looking forward to my sons being a part of this chapter and seeing what they can bring to it.

Stay positive and the youth will pick up on that. A chapter does not have to be large to be effective.

Keep on Scouting

flmom

Great WB Ticket Kraut-60

I guess the one thing I would stress is that WHITE scoks are not part of the uniform. It always amazes me when I see scouts in otherwise complete uniforms to see those white socks sticking out.

I will be looking for info similar to what you are doing here. We just moved to a new troop (for lots of reasons, but distance was the biggest) and was told by the SM they were a complete uniform trop. I was surprised to find out that is not currently the case. My boys and myself show up uniformed (yes even the socks) and I am currently working with the parents on returning this to a uniformed troop. I may be making some waves, but I hope in the end there is not much resistance.

Anyway, Best of luck with your WB Ticket.

I do like Anarchist's wack upside the head...but...

If it is a boy run troop the first line of response should be coming from the PL then the SPL. If the SPL cannot get satisfaction then HE should go the the SM for assistance. Until that point, unless these is a dangerous situation being created, shouldn't it be only advise to the SPL from the SM? If it is not coming directly from the boy leaders then why? I have this problem all the time with the SM and ASM's jumping right in and taking care of things, "because the PL/SPL did not get it under control immediatly". Well how will they ever learn to do these things when the adult leadership is doing them? As part of a SM Conference a problem with a certain scout should certainly be addressed. Dealing with the issue of uniforms, cursing, talking during a presentation, not working with the patrol during the patrol meeting and the list can go on are part of growing and if a PL can let one of his own know how important certain things are then something big has been gained by both boys. We need to show the boys that we trust them to take care of these. YiS

Campcrafter I have wanted to take a look at "Troop Wise" since you posted your question. I had not seen it before, but took some time this AM and looked it over. I have to agree that some of the terms used are a bit on the formal side, but there is some good info there. What I liked best about it was that it tells the adults they are not the

Chain of Command" , that the adults are directed to the SM instead of to the scout can be useful. We have a few untrained adults who insist upon metting out displine, so I can see where this could help us. I also liked the idea of the letters to the parents and the scouts. I would have loved to have received something that informed me about what was expected with a POR (as discussed in a other thread recently). All in all, I'd say some were good ideas others maybe went a little to far. But each Troop I've seen are at different levels of Boy run from what I've seen, so take what you need (of course all that is in BSA Handbooks). YiS

Well you might want to say it next time (but maybe in a softer voice without the steam coming from your ears). It is really hard for some adults to step back and they DO NOT UNDERSTAND HINTS. If you don't say what you actually mean she may not get it. CA_Scouter may have a good idea by switching her to be the advisor of another patrol. I would say that it has to be a patrol that will not allow her to take over. I am the advisor of one of my boys patrols, but he tells me to sit down. I have to sit on my hands (I can't talk without them they tell me). It really makes me proud to see what my son can do, how the other boys listen to him and follow his lead. I stay out of the picture as much as possible, just try to observe so we can discuss things on the way home. It does take my thinking about not interferring, continually thou and reminders from the scouts in the patrol on occasion. If she insists on staying with her daughter's patrol speak to her and come up with some sort of code that you can use to remind her. You don't want to be saying anything in front of the girls. It is hard to keep the youth in charge when we feel that we can do it better and quicker. With our Troop there are a few of the adults that need to hear "Boy Lead means the boys are in charge" from time to time. Good Luck,

YiS

Welcome, you certainly have a lot of time in scouting. I sure there is a lot of wisdom there for you to share. Thanks for joining.

YiS

This is funny!! It's nice to chuckle every so often, this forum is kinda on the serious side at times.

In my home the boys were not allowed to have a digital watch until they could tell time. I tell my kids its quarter to four and half past seven, I'll have to try that at our next campout when a scout asks me the time, after of course I ask him where his watch is. (Be prepared!) I still remember as a teenager (well before digital clocks) a friend of mine not knowing that 45 past 7 and quarter till 8 were the same time. She and I still get a kick out of that. The most prominet clock in my house is an anolog that my mother-in-law embroidered. Eammon those kids on your ship need to cover up all the digitals at home and start learning how to read time! Good Luck! (and BTW what happened to mom and dad teaching time? Isn't that like tying shoes!)

WE have had this issue on more then one occasion. I think that when you are dealing with young men who are gtoing in many directions and they have not yet learned to prioritize this will come up. I do like the suggestions of John-in-KC "As a COR, I insist my Scoutmasters visit with any POR candidate before taking the job, AS WELL AS WITH THEIR PARENTS. A POR isn't just a commitment from the Scout; it's at least in part a commitment from his family. Not all understand, but they need 20/20 vision on this going in." I would have been thrilled if the SM had spoken to Dad and me before first son took a POR. I can't even remeber what it was. I was so new to Boy Scouting then that I was clueless! Son did OK, but if I (his transportation) was aware of certain things he would have been able to do a better job.

Maybe MOM needs the conference with the SM to understand what is expected of her son. If he is not meeting the participation expected then maybe mom is not really aware of the reason behind the expectation. I think that sometimes we focus to much on the scout and forget that he is also part of a family that has demands on his time. Is there problems with transportation you may not be aware of, the scout may not want to share this info with you, but Mom may shed some light. It is easy to say we will help them in anyway, but if we don't know the needs we can't offer.

Just a thought to add to the pot.

YiS

Wanted to update those of you who helped me thru some patrol issues. The PLC was last week and it went great. Actually I think our CC was reading over my sholder. He is really seeing that we have gotten away from the book and wants to get back on track. The SPL is still pushed a bit too much by one of the ASM's but hopefully that will be handled. The patrol that I am advisor for is just taking off. I spoke with the PL, gave him hints on running the meeting, went over the PL Hnadbook with him. He has brought some great ideas to his patrol. They are going to start working on a merit badge as a patrol. the PL is looking for simple ones that will not require to much work. Wants "his" patrol to set the example for the other patrols to follow. He has a written agenda before each meeting, so that during their patrol time at the meetings they don't waste time. The SPL actually commented that this patrol is inspiring him to do a better job. PL got a kick out of that. BIG boost to his ego. Still too much adult interaction (or is it interference) at meetings, but the PL has gone to SPL with these complaints and SPL told the SM. Things will change if they keep at it. I did have to remind an adult that the PL needs to be the one to advise his patrol on when they were meeting. Our SM and he are trying to say they must have "X" number of patrol meetings each month, but I think the scouts have a good handle on things and will let it flow. The PL wants to review the under first class scouts handbooks and get them to first class ASAP. One just needs one or two requirements. Two have several requirements, but PL is hoping to get several done at our next campout. It really has been fun to watch this scout grow and get excited then share his excitment with his patrol members. Boy is he running with this Patrol method!

I want to thank everyone who gave me advise and shared their on experiences on this forum. Having this space to vent and share and get some feedback from others has really helped a lot. Even just reading that maybe our Troop is not the worst out there is a bit comforting.

Our troop typically has the scout request a BOR from the Adv Chair. he then will schedule it for the following week with the CM. There have been times where 3 CM's cannot be at the Monday nite meeting, but will try to schudule on a differnt nite if the parent and scout are willing to do that. (I can only recall once when that wasn't ok and it was because parents were out of town and scout could not be sure he could make it.) On occasion the committee has discussed doing BOR's monthly, but that never seems to work. Advancement is a big deal, that is what they are working for. When my younger scout was looking at troops he wanted to visit some troops other then the one his big bro. was in so we looked at a few. One troop told me they did the BOR's every 3 months, we did not even consider them. I did not think that would be a good fit for us, but that was a personal decision. Hypothetically speaking a troop would not just suddenly start doing BORs every 3 months, so a scout who has hypothetically reached the rank of Star should be hypothetically aware of this procedure.

Hypothetically speaking of course

Yis

Just like all of you, my sons do chores. The chores have increased in difficulty as they got older and were able to handle more. They may not be up to my standards all the time, but I do not redo them (at least not while they are around). WE all have chores to do. As a family it is how the home runs. They know that I write a check each month to our troop for camping, and they know that if they do not do the work at home then they must find work else where. Cleaning the bathroom, washing the dishes, doing laundry, vaccuming and the like may not be glorious, but they do know what the options are!

Are they busy with school work and other activites, YES, but so am I!

YiS

Welcome from a displaced Maniac! I'm currently scouting toward the other end of Rt. 1 down in Florida. We've visited the end of Rt 1 in Key West, maybe some day I can get the troop to go to the other end of Rt 1 (in summer, you know July!)

YiS

fgoodwin, I am not sure what your intention was in sharing this with us. I do not see how the ALA's decision will affect us as scouts and scouters who go to the library. What did the ALA do for the BSA before the Boy Scouts time was up? I will still support my local library, as I have for many years. I will still encourage my own son's to use the library as I will any youth or adult who is looking to read a book.

The title of this thread had me concerned. "Time's up for the Boy Scouts!" What time?

YiS

Eamonn asked how the price of gas is impacting our programs. I know that as a family when we were looking at ideas for the coming year I advised my sons to look at what was close by. I drive on a lot of the campouts carrying my sons and a few others, plus whatever gear can fit in the back. Our troop does not really have any plan at this time about personal vechicles and gas $$. They do have access to a van that our CO has, but have not requested it lately. I think that may change as the person who usually pulls our trailer has said he cannot do it any more. Too much wear and tear and no help from the troop with repair costs. We are having a planning conference soon, so I don't know if any other families discussed the issue of raising gas prices. My sons and I always look at places to go on-line prior to the planning campout, talking about what the boys would like to do and see. We are fortunate to live in Florida, so we have warm weather camping all year long and many great places to go. We did live in the Mid-Atlanntic and there are so many get spots there also. (Anarchist have a GREAT time at Assateague Island - one of my families favorite spots on the earth! Don't feed the ponies!) I think that if the boys look around they will find great spots not to far from home, but maybe need just a little encouragement.

I do believe that the boys do need to understand that with the cost of gas going up it will affect the cost of the campouts and boys in families with multiple scouts will feel the pinch more then those with one boy. (Although anyone on a tight budget is feeling it now!)

I know that with the price of gas adding a strain to our family budget there may be less campouts. My boys have always attended nearly every campout, however we have to look at this as a family as well as scouts and scouters. Our budget will only take so much.

As far as the troops budget fom campouts that money is still coming from my pockets to pay for my sons'. If you haven't been to the grocery store lately, try it sometime. We were $8.00 over budget the other week, and did not by anything extra. All the prices had just gone up a bit. But when you added those bits it took a bite.

Bill, Your last question "Is this normal???" would probably be easy to answer if there was a 'normal".

I hope that the older boys don't just boss the younger scouts because that would be setting an example for these new boy scounts on how to act when they are no longer the youngest. If they are not teaching skills then maybe it is time for the SPL and his ASPL to consider some changes. It may be that they have always done it this way and they don't realize it can be different.

I would advise you ask the SM if that is normal for your troop. Then maybe you get some information from him on how this will help you son and the other new scouts. If they are to learn by example is this the example they should be learning from?

I my experience when younger scouts are put into an existing patrol with older scouts, the reason is for them to learn from the older scouts. There is usually some bossing, but if a word from the SPL to the PL doesn't get things going in the right direction then it may be the "normal".

When you say "took" the leadership postions does that mean there was no vote for PL. In a mixed group it is usually an older scout who gets voted as the PL. Sometimes the younger scouts are in awe of a scout who has been with the troop and seems to know everybody. Good Luck .

To watch my one of my sons plan how "his" patrol is going to be the "best the troop has ever seen" and then watch as he makes a plan and shares it with 7 other young men between the ages of 11-17 (he is 13) is magic. He has got them excited about patrol meetings. They are making plans together on how to help the 3 boys who are under first class reach that goal. They are giving him ideas to take to the PLC on ideas for next the next years activities. Yes it is truly magic.

My oldest is very close to Eagle, just completing some dangling bits. When we are watching him receive that award that he has worked so hard for, yes it will be magic.

The time that I get to spend with my sons and their best friends,how can that not be a magic moment in my life. I hope that it is magic in theirs.

Seeing a boy "finally" get that bowline or some other skill he can not grasp, the look on his face is magic.

How anyone can take issue with saying scouting is magic is not experiencing the same scouting I am experiencing. If you really sit back and watch what is going on, yeah they fight, yeah they bicker, but tell me what "family" does not. These boys are growing into young men in front of our eyes. I'd say that is really MAGIC.

YiS

T158sm That is a great idea. I will be making that suggestions. It will be in a couple of weeks before our next PLC, I'll let you know how/if it works out. The adults should already be able to step back as they have been at the table for several already! YiS

Thanks Anarchist-Great info. I had so little go on from the example of our adults. Most of them want to just take over when the boys get off track or just don't know how to do something. Lots of disipline coming from the adults if the "plan" doesn't work, and lots of you should have's after the fact. I'm sure that when this patrol gets the hang of it, the others will follow.

Summer's coming-have fun!

ScoutingAgain you really got my day going. Loved your last point! its Hunts for this family. I just sent my sons on a campout without Ketchup. (I know because one of my boys did the shopping). Does mustard have any anti oxidants? I guess I'll just have to them eat some when they get home on Sunday night-I hope they don't mind having burgers and fries for supper!

I saw this post and a couple others dealing with the patrol method and thought I had hit gold. Boy it is amazing the different ways things are done and the same few words are interpreted. (I can't qoute the different ways, it'd take to much sapce) Our Troop has been struggling to get the patrols acting as patrols. We had lots of turnover of scouts the last couple of years and need to get back on track.

I think that our SM or the LC advisor (an SA) are talking to much during the PLCs. How much in the way of "guidence" should they be giving.

One of the problems in our troop is that the boys are reluctent to say "We're going to go "here" and do "this"." I don't know if it's because they don't know about places to go or they are just afaid the adults will nix the idea.

I am the SA advisor to one of the patrols, we are getting ready to plan some trips, how do I get the boys to plan them?As the driver on most of the campouts can I give distance suggestions? I try not to be a part of the meeting, just bringing snacks, (those ARE MY choice!) I want these guys to succeed so how do I make sure they have the tools needed? (skills to plan and carry out activities)

How do you tell a parent they cannot be on the committee if they want to be involved in the Troop that their son is in? John had a great list, maybe someone who really wants to help can assist a CM with their task. Of course the committe should not be running the troop and that really seems to be the biggest issue here.

What makes good CMs would be people who are willing to be there for the BOYS. The SM should be reporting to the committee what the boys have decided to do.

Your curve: what to do with SM trained leaders-If they have the training and are attending meetings and camping then the boys should have a wealth of knowledge for skills. Let the boys know they can use them. Also if they have the SM training, even if it is just outdoors training) then they will also know that the troop should be boy run and the patrols are the backbone of the troop not the committee.

All parents are going to want to know what is going on with the troop-they are probably hearing bits and pieces from their scouts. Maybe parent meetings will help keep the committe down to the essential members.

Well I'm an Antelope (and a good old Antelope too) Looks like I'm still wainting on those Buffalo, at least its not dinner time:)

All Babybear asked about was Troop Handbooks. There was no question about how to "write his ticket" and I did not see any offered. As far as where did he get that info, it can be had from many differnt web sites that deal with Wood Badge. Or maybe Babybear has a scouter in his troop who recently went thru Wood Bagdge and come back and talked about doing " fill in the blank " as part of his ticket. I have been around several other scouters who have come back and done much for our Troop as part of their ticket before I had the chance to go to WB. If your an active scouter it's hard not to hear about someones ticket. Babybear, when you get to Wood Badge time will be devoted to the actual writing of the ticket items. We had one member of our patrol who did not know anything about this "ticket thing" as he called it. At the end of our second weekend we were reflecting as a patrol and that was his biggest gripe. He felt that most others had more time to give it consideration. I think that those of us who had an understanding that something was expected had a better time. We were less focused on the ticket idea itself, and could devote time to dicussing ideas amoung ourselves and learning how to write up our ticket items. I had some ideas that totally changed after speaking to my Troop Guide and to the other scouters in my patrol and spending a weekend listening to our presenters. (Then I made a call to our DE about one idea and he got me going in a totally different direction! REALLY stretching myself.) "Be Prepared" to change ideas too!

Have a great time, fellowship with other like minded people and come away with great ideas!Yis flmom...

I am always keeping my eyes open when I go to the thrift stores for scout stuff. In additon to uniforms I like to look at the tee shirts for scout camp/scout event shirts. Our scouts are encouraged to where scout related shirts at campouts and when they cross over most boys have just Cub stuff. They would rather wear Boy Scout stuff, so I have extras to give to new scouts who don't have older brothers to get the stuff from. My boys realy like to find the "0ld" stuff at the thrift stores. My yougest loves to wear a tee from summer camp for the year he was a wolf or bear. Good Hunting, Fl Mom Scout w3

Silly Camp rules. What one may see as silly others see as a necessity. We have similar rules with our troop with the excepton of the chair/stool. Everyone is encouraged to bring their own chair, some places we go have limited seating, and bringing a chair around the campfire is a great way to have our reflections.

As far as an adult having a caffine burst in the early AM hours-if our troop stopped the Coke dirinkers we would cut down our adults willing to go to only the coffee dirinkers. That would be about 1/2 of the registered and frequent campers. Our SM has just asked they not walk around camp with the can, most just put it in their cup.

Uniforms seem to be a hot issue. We have a "Class B" shirt that we wear to identify us as a group when traveling. It seems to keep the soucts more accountable. If one sees another doing something inappropraite he isn't afraid to say something-either to the scout or the SPL.

With all that said there should be reasons given. I know several times I have had to tell the adults who have been with the troop longer the "just because I said so" or "that's the way it has always been" are not the answers a scout or scouter should be receiveing. I may use it on my own kids at home on occasion ,but they will remind me that when we leave the house it is no longer imperical rule. Ask for an explaination, I'm sure you'll see some head scratching and blank stares. Good Luck YiS, flmomscoutw3