Fat Old Guy

" Only a parent or guardian could do this. "

I'm not a lawyer but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express and I believe the State presses charges, the parent only requests that they do so.

If the world continues on its present course, some day when your neighbor is complaining about the leaves from your maple tree and you tell him, "Blow it out your a**," you may be charged with a sex crime.

" Just because the National Executive Committee has the power to interpret the Oath and Law does not mean they are correct"

By defininiton they are correct.

"Once upon a time, the BSA permitted racially segregated units, but as society changed, the BSA changed as well."

They still exist, it is only that "all white" units are not permitted. In my area there are Korean troops, Vietnamese troop and black troop.

"I believe that as society continues to change in the area of acceptance of gays"

It is being forced down our throats by Hollywood. Most people are afraid to speak out in public because they don't want to seem out of step. Harrison Ford (drunken, cheating, draftdodging paragon of virtue that he is) likes homosexuals so if you don't there must be something wrong with you.

I wonder how all those guys made it to Eagle back when it could take two or three years to make first class.

I know more than few boys who were barely 10 when they crossed over. November and December birtdays made them nearly a year younger than many of their classmates. With pushy parents, a boy can easily make 1st Class before November rolls around again.

Details, we need details.

Releive him orally? For all we know, the sexual abuse of the abuser is him saying, "B*** me!" or making the classic stroking sign as sign of contempt.

Once you get the authorities involved, you have lots of liberals running around stamping all involved as villans.

I was off getting my Geritol so I must have missed something. Where did Eamonn say that the Scout's gear was wet?

"Okay FOG but I dont know anything about the incident that seems to have given rise to the question. The question remains (this was given as a hypothetical) what difference does it matter who or if he has parents?"

That's a good question but If you read the original thread (... lashes with a wet Wood Badge), the foster parents in question had no interest in coming to get the Scout. Some might say that they exhibited stereotypical foster parent behavior. I've seen both good and lousy foster parents out there but he bad always overshadow the good.

12 year old First Class? Heck, I've met a few boys who made first class before they were 11. All it takes is one of two things: a motivated Scout or a pushy parent.

"I have never seen a federal taxpayer ID of any kind being required for making any kind of purchase."

We have a state tax-exempt certificate so we don't have to pay sales tax, the number on it is a Federal tax-id number. I'm guessing that the number is our CO's tax-id because they are a tax-exempt organization. I've asked about it a couple times and no one in the troop really knows anything except that we don't pay sales tax.

" The CO gave some money to scouting in the past. They are under no obligation to do so in the future."

True but if the money is in the budget and then you find out that it has been redirected, what does that say about what they'll do to your money if you give it to them.

" As for money raised via fundraisers, you have the option of turning in that money to the CO (preferably) or not."

If you don't turn it in to the CO (as they are now requesting) what can you do with it? The CO has nixed the idea of separate accounts for the troop and pack. Give it to the Scoutmaster?

"This past fiscal year, the CO used it for something else (not Scouting); we were told it was "needed elsewhere." "

Ah ha! The thought plickens.

The odor of stale fish is really comming through my CRT now.

Do you have a trusted source on the church board? Ask him what's going on. Although many of these plots are hatched in ad hoc meetings with no records and not all of the members in attendence. "Hey Bob, ya know the Sunday school is running over budget again and those durned Boy Scouts have $2,000 extra in their checking account." "Hmmmm. . . we ought to be able to use that money for the Sunday School, after all they are both Church programs."

"I wear men's clothing. I'm not talking some 11 year old's stuff."

There's "men's clothing" and there's "MEN'S clothing." Big difference between a pair of jeans with a 32 inch waist and a pair with a 42 inch waist.

Eamonn, what do you mean by "I have spent a fair amount of time in the "Ryan Homes" attending and presenting Camp School stuff"? What does a home building company have to do with Scouting?

Also, has anyone talked to the stranded Scout's unit leaders to find out how or why he was left behind? If that question was answered, I must have missed it.

The camp or troop should supply a list of what is needed. That should cover just about everything.

If he likes to fish, let him take his rod. If wants to take Magic or Yu-gi-oh cards, let him.

Don't forget his meds. Make sure that those go along. Camp isn't much different from school (my doctor disagrees but he has no children and has never been to Scout Camp). All day long he'll be going from one activity to another that requires him to pay attention and be reasonably calm.

Be sure to mark everything that goes with your son with his name. That includes water bottles, handbooks, clothes, notebooks, toothbrushes, etc. I try to check the camp lost and found on Friday evening to look for anything that one of my Scouts has lost. Interesting what you can find.

I'm glad that I'm not in WingNut's unit, they sound like a bunch of wingnuts and probably have investagotory committees that look into violations "standing policies." "Vhere are your Scout Socks, Joey Secondclass? Talk, ve haff vays of making you talk!"

"what is the relevance of his being in foster care?"

Despite what we see on TV (telly?), foster parents don't always give a hoot about their charges. Some do and those are the ones who get the awards, the news stories and the made-for-TV movies. Far too many just want the check that comes with the child and if they have to do any real parenting, fuggetaboutit. "Pick the kid up at camp? Nah, I'm watching the game, let someone else bring him home."

Unfortunately, we can also find in type of behavior in natural parents as well.

"That means they would lose all of their money for sure. Right?? Staying with the church means they will still have some, if not most of the money they have earned."

Freedom always has a price, sometimes it is blood and other times it is money.

I see too many problems with the proposed system, even with written agreements in place. If the church doesn't live up to the agreements, what can you do? Sue? Not really since you can't sue yourself.

Whatever the underlying cause of the request, there are too many opportunities for abuse by the Charter Organization.

Let's say the troop raises $2,000 more than expenses so they think that they can buy new tents this summer. Hello! That $2,000 was spent on new robes for the altar boys and a trip for the basketball team. Huh? Why don't they have their own fundraisers? They never have in the past and you didn't need the money. Refund it to the troop? Can't do that, it's gone. Right now, they'll say that won't happen but churches are run by people.

Wingnut, what's your solution to the problem? Shoot the kid and bury him in the woods?

Kick him out of the Scouting as an example to anyone else who shows compassion and uses common sense and doesn't follow BSA rules. What this leader should have done, is called for another leader from his unit to come meet him at the camp, wait the three hours for the leader to get there parked at least 300 yards down the road from the boy so he could keep an eye on him, drive the Scout home with the second leader and then return to camp so the second leader can retrieve his car.

Fortunately, we've never had anything close to this happen in my troop, before we leave camp we know that everyone has a ride. On the other hand, Scouts have been stranded at troop meetings, we just shoot those kids and bury the body in the woods.

Lot's of good advice here so far.

Forget that you are a mom and tell your buddy the same thing. Let the boys be boys. Don't fuss over brushed teeth or showers. Don't fuss over lights out and bedtime, some nights the guys will want to sit up and talk, other nights they'll want to go to bed early.

Allow them to build fires and cook marshmallows. Allow them to tell scarey stories.

Most boys will come prepared for leisure time. There are always a few chess sets, sets of Magic cards, etc.

Try not to intrude on the boys' space.

Show enthusiam for their handicrafts. Well, most of the time. If someone is showing pride in their workmanship, praise their piece. If someone is putting no effort into their work, maybe this is a teachable moment.

We confiscate video games and CD players and bury them. This encourages the boys to socialize.

I smell a rat. A big rat.

What's going to happen to the funds that you raise that are in excess of your "line item"? What if you don't spend all of your budget in one year, will your funds be reduced for next year? Are you going to be in the position of government agencies, looking for reasons to spend money at the end of the fiscal year so your budget won't be cut?

Will they be second guessing every expenditure? "Why are you spending so much on rank patches, why don't you get the old patches back from Scouts once they advance?" "Eureka tents, why not tents from Wal-Mart?"

Auditors? Ask to talk to the auditors.

I really have a feeling that someone on the church board saw a way to get some extra money into the church coffers and sold it to the rest of the members.

If you can't resolve the issues to your satisfaction, perhaps it is time to find a new Charter Organization.

Brass and bronze are both alloys of copper, the former primarily with zinc and the latter primarily with tin. I believe that bronze is usually harder than brass but I'm not a metalurgist so I may be wrong.

FWIW, my butter bars were gold (well, gold plate) but my buckle and many other parts of my uniform were brass and required polishing.

Try the link that NJCubScouter posted. My link takes you off to neverland with warning about secure servers. How I got there in the first place, I'm not sure.

The Medal of Honor is a star and you could call its color goldish.

Acco40, to borrow from Bob White, spoken with great conviction but wrong.

The reason that the Army has silver and gold versions of bars and oak leaves has nothing to do with the value of the metal or the meaning of the metal. For the complete story visit www.perscomonline.army.mil/tagd/tioh/ROTC%20Misc%20NGB%20page/Silver%20and%20Gold%20Insignia.htm

A few years ago, I read why BSA goes bronze, gold, silver but I can't find that information now. I'll keep looking.

(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

"When a boy says no, that is when the line has been drawn."

A line has been drawn but what type of line. When a Scout is told to police the area around his tent and says, "No" is that the same as when a Scout is told to like the SPL's boots and says, "No"?

Many of the Scouts in my troop collect rocks and built "patios" in front of their tents. Last year a group made elaborate walkways connecting their tents.