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They did post a post-WJ2007 report that was very useful (wish National would do this for our NSJ).

Anyway, one of the sections spoke of costs. There are actually 4 category of country. One pays 100%, one pays 75%, one pays 50%, and one pays 25%. Depending on your country, that determines your fee as a participant or contingent leader. For IST, those 18-25 paid 70% of the fee, and those over 25 paid 80% of the fee.

So, for the 2007 World Scout Jamboree, these were the prices charged for us in the BSA:

Contingent members: 560 pounds

IST staff under 25: 392 pounds

IST staff over 25: 448 pounds

Now, National then tacked on all their costs (extra stuff, travel for contingents, etc. I seem to recall that as an IST staffer over 25, my cost was around $1800. I got a tent, a bag and knapsack, poncho, a couple of patches, and probably some insurance.

Not sure if someone is able to figure out what the exchange rate for pounds around that time.

Haven't seen the similiar costs for the 2011 WSJ, but haven't looked, to be honest.

So, hope that helps. Keep in mind we are speaking of an event that is 8 years out or so, so keep in mind possible inflation.

"Yea yea uniform police bust my chops that it doesn't actually mean anything. Lore is that if you hike the tooth you can wear the tail over the seam. Mine is over, but you also know how I feel about the uniform police."

Hey, I've been accused of being a uniform cop, and I wear the tail over the seam. I don't hassle people about that. If people ask, I'll tell them the lore. That's all it is.

I've limited the patches on my red jac-shirt to an older OA back patch, the universal patch on the left pocket, a sea base patch with segments on the right pocket, and the black bull.

"Didn't Singapore and Italy put in bids? True the slots are more limited, and the costs are set by WOSM, but a good bit of the cost for a WSJ is the airfare."

I thought there was going to be more bids. But when the booklet on-line on all this was put up at the WOSM site, there was only ONE bid for the 2019 Jamboree. I think the fact that it was the BSA doing it PLUS it was a joint bid may have discouraged others from bidding. Since it had been talked up for a few years, this may have helped with this discouragment.

While, yes, a large cost of the WJ is airfare, it is a bit costly. I know my WJ costs in 2007 (no airfare) was close to $2000. Now, that included a tent and a few extras, so maybe the real cost (I'd have to dig thru my data to check) was closer to $1200, but that's more then what I paid for National ($800). Soooo, I would have to think that WJ 2019 for us in the US will be more then NJ, because we will be subsidizing the others.

We'll know better when we get closer to the event. Probably not till around 2017 (our second NJ at the Summit).

The red jac-shirts have pretty much been for ALL scout leaders for some time. I think at one time, several decades ago, they had a blue jac-shirt for cub scout leaders.

But I think per the new catalog, the red jac-shirt has been replaced by a new olive one.

It was kind of a forgone conclusion, as the bid by the BSA/SC/SM was unopposed.

People do need to keep in mind that the number of slots for BSA youth to attend will be about the same as for any other World Jamboree. Same hold true for adults wanting to be on staff. DON'T expect us to be able to send the same number of youth/staff as for our National jamboree.

Costs for the WJ is partially set by the world organization. Those in developed nations (like the US) will pay more then from others. Again, don't expect a 'discount' just because we are hosting it. (tho we get out of the expense of flying overseas).

I have seen a few Camp Staff POR patches, usually specific for that camp.

"Interesting post but in all my years in scouting I have never heard in any of the councils I was/am part of the Lodge Chief being on the council exec committee or camping comittee(except in an honorary capacity)and in either case never having any voting rights."

I have been hearing of this a lot more in the last 10 or so years, including see LC wearing Council Exec Board patches. Whether or not they are voting members I can't say (probably not), but the LCs I know of sit on the exec board as a youth representative. If there is a Council Venturing President, they, too, sit on the board as a youth representative for Venturing. Typically they are there to provide a report of what is going on (lodge, venturing), not have a say in decisions.

here is the thing

The National Chief, Nat Vice-Chief and Regional Chiefs ALL wear gold loops and appropriate national/regional office insignia.

On the Venturing side, there are office patches for National, Regional, Area, Council and District Venturing Presidents, and them wearing gold or silver loops (as appropriate) and regional insignia (again, as appropriate) is not just allowed but encouraged.

For whatever reason, nothing is done for the Section, Lodge, and Chapter officers.

As noted, the Lodge Chief and Chapter Chiefs are supposed to be members of certain committees by virtual of their position. In some councils, the LC is on the exec board as a youth representative. So why shouldn't they wear the appropriate office patches/loops to indicate that? Now, that would have to be done with the approval of the adult leadership, not the youth decided to do that on their own.

(oh, and the Council & District Committee patches aren't restricted. around here they are available to anyone to buy at the Scout Shops, not behind the counter.)

also, Rockwell's paintings ran from 1925-76, should should be useful.

"I would LOVE to see the placement of the award next to World Crest as a true symbolism of us connecting with our World Scouting Bretheren and truly leading the charge of us showing that we truly care for our planet."

Actually, what would really show us 'connecting with our World Scouting Bretheren' would be to do what WOSM seems to want us to do and replace the World Conservation Award with the World Environmental Award.

See the WOSM site for more info on this.

One of the leaders in my area indicated the new books are in our local shop (haven't seen them myself).

"The fact is that there are too many zealots to have meaningful contributions to the BSA site."

There are 'zealots' and then there are 'zeolots'.

How do you separate the knowledgable, passionate people from the nut jobs??

Problem is that too many at National either can't or won't bother to figure out which is which.

"Just allowing volunteers, you know the ones in the trenches to leave feedback on the BSA Innovation Engine website would be a start."

Oh, no no no!! We can't have that. If they wanted our opinions, they would have told us what they should be.

"They said over a year ago they would implement volunteers being able to leave feedback, but instead did something where you can't even get on the site now to see what being proposed or read the feed back."

Over a year ago??? I was told this back at the National Meeting in 2009. That's close to 2 years ago. Oh, but we could have some local pro upload our comments for us. Yeah, like that's going to happen.

Be nice if the BSA would learn the concept of transparency.

"Are there any scouting units in the US that are independent? Without a chartering organization and with their own clubhouse?"

Kind of a contradition in terms.

If a unit owns property, they would need to be incorporated in some way for legal purposes. If they want to be a charatable organization (take donations) they would definetly need to be incorporated to ensure this working. THAT would then be the 'chartering organization'.

Certainly in my council, we have several units whose charter org is "Friends of unit X", "Parents of unit x", etc. The CO thus exists ONLY to run the unit, and is headed by people interested in the unit (parents of the kids, etc). As opposed to CO who are churches, community orgs, service orgs, etc, which the unit is just a sideline.

I checked wikipedia, and was able to glen a little info on the strip.

This was a newspaper strip, written by Paul Powell, who was himself a former Boy Scout (no idea if an Eagle). It became an official symbol of the BSA and promoted scouting.

"Famous Funnies" comic book ran this strip for ten years starting with issue #39 in July of 1937. "Famous Funnies" was a long running comic book that lasted until the mid-50s.

With the current crazy in reprinting of classic newspaper comic strips, maybe someone might be interested to look into this one??

someone else posted this link:

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/AlumniAlive/AlumniNews/2010_12_Active_Alumni.aspx

I have to ask, how is an "active Alumni" different from any other scouter?? If one assumes that "active alumni" = scouter who used to be a scout, I would take that to mean that only some scouters could earn this award (ie, only those who were formally scouts).

To give a slightly different perspective on 'alumni', in my Fraternity, you basically join in one of two ways: as a student or as an advisor (without having previously joined as a student) to a chapter. Either way, once you end your active involvement (graduate from college OR leave the chapter as a former advisor), you are considered an alumni of the fraternity. ALL the volunteer leadership of the fraternity is made up of "alumni volunteers", regardless of if they originally joined as a student or as an advisor.

So using that criteria, a "scouting alumni" would include those who were active in scouting either a youth member OR as an adult scouter, and who have left scouting (but could certainly come back as a scouter).

But which is being used for this award???

Guess we'll know better when the requirements come out.

"I think BSA makes awards like this because they think its a wa to get people involved but as someone here comented, isint an alumni someone who belonged to group and has left? I think the award is flawed. Maybe the should have called it a recruiting service award?"

It seems clear to me a way to recognize people who get OTHERS involved, in this case alumni (former members). Its little different then awards to recognize getting various minority groups.

"Get he red out of BSA. Some good that did with the trained tabs and numbers. Iwas told at my scout shop cub leaders wear red trained tabs (the dumb little ones) and red numbers. I am all of some slight differances in the uniforms but I think some of wha BSA does is money driven. Have you noiced when something new like the venturing switch back come out the price is high but within 6 months the itm is on sale or put on a special? (nevermnd te fact the venturing switch backs are cap!)"

Actually, the red training strips & red numbers are for BOTH Cub Scout leaders and Venturing people (youth & adults).

The reason items like the venturing switch back are high and go low is because they aren't selling (big surprise).

"Now I have heard of Sea Scout ships being rated, depending upon if they were traditional Sea Scout, non-traditional with a sailing focus, or non traditional with a non sailing focus ( i.e. scuba, oceanographic, etc) "

That really wasn't rating them.

Basically, from the 70s on, Sea Scout ships were informally gathered into one of 3 "fleets": Blue (traditional), White (non-traditional sailing), and Red (everything else). AFAIK, this grouping is more or less dead, as anything in "red" would more likely be Venturing Crews, as well as some "white" ships as well (there are sailing & scuba Venturing crews who have no interest in being ships).

This is little different from the gathering of Explorer Posts into various groups (High Adventure/Outdoors, Fire/Rescue, Law Enforcement, Engineering, etc).

"What is an Alumni? If I understand the term correctly, without looking the definition up in the dictionary, an Alumni individual is a person who has belonged to an organization, such as a University, a civic group, or it could be an association with the military, but is no longer an active member of that organization or group. However, they may still lend support to that organization, whether it be financial or otherwise. So, what is a BSA Alumni? Is he or she still a registered scouter? That would undermine the definition, it its truest sense. If this is the case, why was the award created? It would be assumed that it is only meant for former BSA registered members--Alumni. Unless, the requirements are based on some other criteria that would support it being aquired by an active BSA member, why create a knot for a former BSA active member? I'm just speculating. of course."

Why are you speculating???

Prior messages seem to make it clear that the award is for CURRENT Scouters who get Alumni more involved. Its not a recognition for alumni specifically.

"On the other hand the references to "sex education" and "the glorious differences between the sexes" do suggest a possible agenda."

Haven't read the book. I have no idea what the point is about "sex education", but I think I know what the reference is about the differences between the sexes.

It refers to those who want to act as if there is NO differences between boys and girls, and refuse to accept that they have difference interests and develop at different rates. Which is why we have Boy Scouts and Girl Guides

Actually, the original program colors were:

*Red for Rovers/Senior Scouts/Explorers

*Green for Boy Scouts

*Yellow/Blue for Cub Scouts

This was more or less set down in England.

This is why service star backings are those colors and the original garter tabs were those colors and why Explorers wore red jac-shirts.

De Larentes (sp?) messed up that coloring when they used red loops for boy scouts and green loops for explorers (the opposite of what its always been).

I stumbled upon this book at amazon.com. Its themes are interesting, and topics that some here have discussed.

Here is what is said there:

"Were extinguishing the minds (and souls) of our children

Play dates, helicopter parenting, No Child Left Behind, video games, political correctness: these and other insidious trends in child rearing and education are now the hallmarks of childhood. As author Anthony Esolen demonstrates in this elegantly written, often wickedly funny new book, almost everything we are doing to children now constricts their imaginations, usually to serve the ulterior motives of the constrictors.

"Ten Ways to Destroy the Imagination of Your Child" takes square aim at these accelerating trends, while offering parentsand childrenhopeful alternatives. Esolen shows how imagination is snuffed out at practically every turn: in the rearing of children almost exclusively indoors; in the flattening of love to sex education, and sex education to prurience and hygiene; in the loss of traditional childhood games; in the refusal to allow children to organize themselves into teams; in the effacing of the glorious differences between the sexes; in the dismissal of the power of memory, which creates the worst of all possible worlds in schooldrudgery without even the merit of imparting facts; in the strict separation of the childs world from the adults; and in the denial of the transcendent, which places a low ceiling on the childs developing spirit and mind.

Much like "The Wonder of Boys" and "The Wonder of Girls", and "The Dangerous Book for Boys" and "The Daring Book for Girls", Ten Ways to Destroy the Imagination of Your Child confronts contemporary trends in parenting and schooling by reclaiming lost traditions. This practical, insightful book is essential reading for any parent who cares about the paltry thing that childhood has become."

"I hope he has some experience in content management and website organization."

And social networking and the like.

"Scouting.org is so counter-intuitive it hurts my brain."

I actually prefer the prior version. Was fairly easy to find things, even compared to similiar org. Today?? Yesh, hard to find stuff.

In some councils, I know of religious camporees (not for specific religions, but usually generic christian). One went with a different book of the Bible for their theme.

"Oak Tree wrote: The guide specifically lists the five knots that can *only* be earned by youth, but there are roughly seven other knots that can be earned by either youth or adults."

"My total count is 11: Arrow of Light, Eagle, Quartermaster, Venturing Silver, Heroism Award, Honor Medal, Medal of Merit, Hornaday, OA Distinguished Service Award, religious emblem, James E. West."

"Am I missing one?"

Yes, the Venturing Leadership Award, which, like the OA DSA, can be received by both youth & adults.

"What exactly is a "device"? Am I supposed to have a "device" to indicate that I earned my religious award as a Boy Scout? "

We are speaking of small knot devices, small pins which are worn on the knot to indicate earning more then one award represented by the knot in different programs. At present, the knots devices are: Cub Scout, Webelos Scout, Boy Scout, Venturing, Sea Scouts, Varsity Scout, Commissioner, and District.

The religious youth awards may, for some religious groups/denominations, can be earned at different program levels (Cub Scout, Webelos Scouts, Boy Scouts, older Boy Scouts/Venturing), and if the youth does earn several of these awards wears several knot devices to indicate all these awards they've earned.

Adults may earn certain awards (Scouter Training Award, Scouters Key) more then one time, but in different programs, and if they did so, wear the devices to indicate this.

"If ya got the Parvuli Dei as a Cub, depending upon if Webelos was a 1 year or 2 year program, then you are able to put a Cub Scout device on it (if Webelos was 1 year) or a Webelos Device ( if Webelos was 2 year program, yes evan if earned as a Bear)."

Actually, with the knot devices and the religious youth knot, WHEN you earned the awards has NOTHING to do with the knot device you wear, but the particular award.

For those awards available at several levels, you wear a particular device for particular award level, not when you earned it. For instance, if a boy scout earned the older boy version, he wears a Venturing device even if he earned it as a Boy Scout, not 2 boy scout devices.

Just not sure on the Catholic awards where each one falls.