
eisely
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Dealing with the last question first, dishwater should be disposed of in a sump if one is available. An area for dish cleaning should be established separately from the food preparation and sleeping areas. If there is no sump then simply dispose of the water on the ground. Observe the same rules about distance from streams and water sources as apply to latrines. Philmont teaches an effective means of dishwashing that I have not seen elsewhere. Each crew is issued a simple rubber spatula such as is used in your kitchen and a perforated frisbee. Also, every camp site I ever saw had Philmont had a sump. The crew also gets a supply of ziplocks. Every dish is scraped into the frisbee with the spatula. This done over the sump as water is used to assist in this mechanical cleaning. You end up with a certain amount of solid material that goes into the ziplock and that is carried out. Washing consists of two phases. Hot soapy wash and hot clear rinse. Dishes are then air dried. Since there may still be some residue, the dishes should not be placed near the sleeping area as bears and other critters may be attracted. I also teach my scouts to wash the cleanest items first. This is usally the cups and plastic silverware, followed by individual bowls, and the dishes used for food preparation.
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It would seem to me that organizing a new troop to deliver the scouting program to boys who would not otherwise get access to it IS a service to the community, not scouting. Clearly, undertaking a project to build patrol boxes for one's own troop is the kind of project the rule wants to exclude.
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Backpacking 103 "My dogs are barking!"
eisely replied to Mike Long's topic in Camping & High Adventure
An excellent summary Mike. I can't think of a thing to add. I wonder if any troops operate "boot exchanges" in the same manner of uniform exchanges where outgrown uniforms are collected and issued to smaller scouts. It seems to me that this could work for expensive hiking boots as well. -
One of the primary arguments in favor of United Way (disregarding the disputes about alleged discrimination) is that United Way is a very efficient way of raising funds for charities generally. An important criterion for deciding how much to give an organization is how much of every dollar is devoted to fund raising versus the programs the organization allegedly supports. I don't know the figures for Boy Scouts, but I suspect the scouts are pretty efficient in this regard. It is sad but true that there are many charities that are essentially scams. At least United Way does perform some due diligence regarding the legitimacy of the participating organizations. United Way was also a good deal for employers. Employers could agree to participate in the payroll deduction program and turn other supplicants away. The real tragedy of United Way is that activists have seized it in various parts of the country and used it as a means to further their parochial agendas.
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The idea of running a night compass course as a different kind of activity is a great idea. The only time I ever did this was in the army. The bozos I was with almost got us into the impact area where live firing was going on. I tried to tell them ... but I digress. The principal advice I would offer about a night compass course is to choose an area where there is nothing where anybody could get hurt. I also would suggest having adults at each control point on the course to help keep track of where people are. These adults can operate in lieu of punches for the ticket.
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That is an impressive undertaking. Somehow I doubt that more than only a few units in the USA take on that kind of thing.
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Concerning the question of whether homosexuals are born or made that way, there is an important book out that debunks the science upon which the claims are based that homosexuality is inborn. I bought and started it, but had to set it aside. Right now I can't find it. The title is "The mismeasure of desire..." When I locate it I will post the complete information. The myth that science has proven that homosexuality is inborn is just that, a myth propagated by the national media. Coming back to the original question of denying government employees the right to contribute to scouts, this came up in Ann Arbor Michigan too. The willingness of the advocates of homosexuality to damage and destroy institutions to advance their agenda is real and annoying, to say the least. I won't take any bets that the governor will come out on top on this one.
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Weekender's information is interesting. I don't know if that is the nationwide United Way practice for designated gifts. In some areas, such as where I live, the scouts are cut out of the general allocation, but one can still designate different councils as recipients. I don't know for sure if they actually get the money. In some parts of the country, where United Way has cut the scouts out of the general allocation, the designated gifts for scouts have gone up and exceeded the expected allocation, at the same time that the other United Way beneficiaries get less. This does not seem consistent with weekender's information. For some time now I have minimized my United Way donations and given more to FOS. That way I know where the money is going.
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le Voyageur, Since you have already been chastised by the regulars I will not go there. Concerning the flag on the uniform I agree with all the other posts that the flag should stay. OGE makes some good points that a group of veterans, whose opinions are valued, should not have the final word. I too am a veteran, though I was fortunate enough not to collect a purple heart. Both stamp and coin collecting are major activities, with their own international societies, meetings, and exhibitions. There are more to these than just collecting bottle caps or beer coasters. They ought to be kept. I would like to hear more from you in a separate post about how you organize and execute your whitewater rafting expeditions. I also note that Dedicated Dad is now a senior member. Congratulations are in order.
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I have little to add to the previous replies to the original post other than to agree. There are different purposes being served. One might also point out that working on staff is also paid summer employment.
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Are your referring to rock climbing or trekking in steep terrain? We regularly backpack in the Sierras on established trails with no technical climbing. I would not consider that to be mountaineering. We also go to a local site occasionally for rapelling simply as a fun activity. The troop I was with in Southern California used to make (and probably still makes) a long drive in early November to what is now Joshua Tree National Park. There are many opportunities there for both rock climbing and rapelling, but our camping on these trips was car camping. Our council is only now gearing up to provide training in climbing safety to adults.
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I agree with Bob Russell's way of handling similar matters when they come to his attention. I also agree with jmcquillan that it would be inappropriate to raise the subject to the scoutmaster based on hearsay. If the scoutmaster should ask you if you know anything about the controversy then that is another matter.
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good luck
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It is worth pointing out that non profits are not immune to financial abuse. In my opinion non profits are probably more susceptible because fewer people are watching. Remember the scandal in the 80's about the national United Way organization? The long time president of United Way had set up some closely held companies operated by family members to provide various services to the national United Way organization. More recently the Red Cross has taken heat for diverting funds donated for 9-11 to other programs. In the case of the Red Cross, no one is accused of stealing. I think that it would be difficult to say the least for large scandals to emerge in scouting. Most of the money is spent at the local council level and there are volunteer boards to watch that. There may be mismanagement, but I would be surprised at outright theft.
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My impression is that very few scout units set up a true "orienteering course", complete with detailed map to meet the first class requirement. What I have done in the past to separate the orienteering from the map reading somewhat because I haven't had the ability to generate a reliable large scale map to go with the course. Here is what I suggest. Take the longest tape measure you have and set up outside a line 100 feet long on the ground. Mark the ends with stakes or a piece of cloth on the ground if the wind isn't blowing. Have everybody in the family pace this off and count their paces. Do it both ways. The idea is compute the length of one's pace by dividing 100 by the number of paces. Most adults are about 2.5 feet in their step. A purist will call a pace two steps, one with the right leg and one with the left leg. It doesn't matter as long as everybody understands and agrees. One of the adults needs to lay out a course for the boys to follow. Make up some tags that you tie to bushes, trees, or anything else. Write random numbers, using two digits, on these tags. This is in lieu of using the special punches that orienteering clubs use. Pick a starting point that is fixed. You know your land so you can rough out a course in your mind avoiding major obstacles that are totally impassable. Take a bearing from your starting point to some object, either on the horizon, or the near distance. Write down the bearing. Start pacing towards the object, counting your own paces (or single steps) as you go. When you come to a spot on your first leg where there is an identifiable object, make this your first check point or station. Write down the number of paces with the bearing. Put a tag on the object. Write down the digits on the tag. The object you select for your checkpoint does not have to be the object you were walking towards. Depending on circumstances I have had legs as long as a quarter mile and as short as 50 feet. In your pacing, if you have to go around something, just do so and try to come back a logical point on the back side of the object and keep counting all the time. After doing all of the above, from you first checkpoint, turn in the general direction you want to go and repeat the process. Select an object on the horizon, take a bearing, pace off, establish your next checkpoint etc. I would write down what type of object you are attaching the tag to. Put the tag in plain view. This is not hide and go seek. Continue doing this until you have looped back to your starting point, or some preselected end point. Go back home, pour a cup of coffee and figure out the distance of each leg in feet. If you and your spouse can do this together you can average your estimates of the distance. Make up a set of instructions giving the starting point, the distances, the bearings, and the checkpoint descriptions. Give this to your sons and see if they can find the tags. They are required to write down the numbers on the tags. This is a check to make sure they are not making up the answers. Be sure to avoid power lines and buried pipelines. Also avoid other metal objects such as gates, metal fence poles and the like. These can all throw you off. One principle in laying out a course is to use a compass that is more accurate than the participants will use. I use a compass with a folding mirror and sight. The typical scout orienteering compass such as polaris is probably accurate to only 10 degrees, even in the hands of an experienced user. The compass with the sight is probably accurate to 2 degrees. It doesn't sound like you have the more accurate compass, so you will have to do the best you can. After you have read through this, ask any questions you may have.
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I never had a problem with the vests. I would rather give people a legitimate uniform part to put the patches on than see people get creative with their shirts and pants. It also gives the new cubs and new scouts something to look up to.
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In my call for more disclosure, I did not mean to imply any mistrust on my part. Our council too operates multiple camps and really is hard pressed to keep with all the necessary repairs and improvements. I don't know how many paid executives and other staff our council has, but we seem to be getting our money's worth.
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I am not a runner either. I have seen too many injuries from running to recommend it as a form of exercise. Some people do wear sneakers on hikes, and even short backpacking trips. If the trails are pretty level and not too torn up, you can probably get by. A lot depends on the trail conditions and the load you will actually be carrying. Proper footgear is important, and can become expensive for families, particularly with growing boys. In our troop we tolerate sneakers for milder hiking events knowing the cost and that the growing foot will never wear out any boots that are purchased. We expect everybody to have properly broken in boots before we undertake more difficult trips. This means that spring time is usually the time for boot purchases. Maybe Mike, who is a much more experienced backpacer than I, will initiate a thread on footgear.
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Thanks for sharing this story.
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I would like to see more disclosure. As non profit corporations councils and national are not required to report to anybody except the IRS. I would think that disclosure would yield many benefits.
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Marcy, I did day hikes carrying my youngest son as a toddler many years ago. I would think that backpacking would be very difficult, unless the older boys can carry a lot of weight. Where do you live? Are there any predators to be concerned about that would attack a small child? Here in California we now have to worry about mountain lions that have lost their fear of humans and that cannot be hunted, along with coyotes.
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Now that snowcamping is in season, it is timely to share an idea. Several years ago our troop was snow camping at about 7,000 feet on Mt. Pinos in Southern California. Another scout troop from the San Fernando Valley arrived and I saw these kids hauling a lot of firewood and what looked like a lot of junk through the snow with great difficulty. My curiousity was aroused, and we found out that night what they were up to. The junk consisted of a small piece of plywood, the base for an old secretarial chair with the seat and wheels removed, and the tub from a top loading clothes washer. The scouts put the secretarial chair on the plywood so it would not sink into the snow. Then the tub fit down over the center stem of the chair to a point, and voila! A fire pit above the snow. We all enjoyed their campfire and swapped stories for several hours that night. Just yesterday I saw a similar product on sale at the hardware store and that reminded me of this experience. The device I saw was just a pan from a barbecue on wheels, with a hinged screen and top. Plywood would still be required in snow. I like the junk idea myself.
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This works well for the den chief position because all the den chief work is totally apart from the rest of the troop activities. If a boy can handle it, why not let him try? Of course the parents have to be ready to get the boy around to a second set of meetings.
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Here in California there are several great camps. There are numerous camps in the Sierras operated by different councils. One our troop enjoyed was Camp Oljato. I don't recall who operated it. Our council operates a camp in the Sierras called Camp Wolfboro. This is on a fork of the Stanislaus River close to mother lode territory. The Los Angeles council operates a camp on Catalina Island called Emerald Bay. I never went there, but my two sons who did, and others I know, loved it. They offer scuba and Oceanography merit badge, along with the normal badges offered at camp. The troop I am with now goes to Camp Royaneh operated by the San Francisco council. This is on a tributary to the Russian River north of San Francisco. This camp has no boating program, but has a great swimming program. One unique program they have is horse back riding. One camp to avoid is Camp Pitchess, also operated by the Los Angeles Council. I found it very disappointing. The Scouter.com website has links to numerous camps. Good luck. Such a venture so far away from home will be costly and time consuming, but the boys will remember it forever.
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Getting these folks to training is probably the first step. When they see other adults in uniform having a great time, the idea will probably sell itself.