eisely

Let me bore you with a related eagle horror story.

Several years ago there was a high school age life scout in our troop who did not show up for two years. He had all his merit badges, although that was not 100% clear as his dad was the advancement coordinator. Two years went by and he showed up with his eagle application in hand and an eagle project workbook completed and signed off by the benefiting organization, but never seen before, much less approved, by any of the adult volunteers in the troop or at the district level.

To their credit the SM and CC refused to sign the documents, as did the project approval authority at the district level. The CC told me that the scout's claimed POR was chaplain's aide two years earlier. The only thing that the CC could recall that the scout ever did in this capacity was say grace at one outing.

The scout appealed to the council. The troop adult leadership was assured that they would be given an opportunity to speak about the appeal before a decision was made. The council gave the scout his eagle anyway without ever notifying the adult volunteers involved that they would be invited to meet on a certain date.

We lost one very good volunteer forever as a result of this fiasco.

So, while the new guidelines appear to push more authority and control to the units, units are well advised to have their acts together as to record keeping and all other aspects of managing the advancement process.

This subject has been discussed in other threads in this forum numerous times over the years. The issue remains largely unresolved.

For many boys and families scouting is the activity that the boy participates in after everything else is taken care of. Beavah's point is extremely well taken.

In general I would be more lenient with a scout who is not in a critical POR. Boys who accept a critical POR should not accept that role if they know that their participation in a sports team or some other activity is going to force their participation in scouts down. I am glad that the new guidelines recognize this issue and at least give units some leeway in establishing standards. Hopefully when these kinds of time commitment conflicts arise, they are addressed before the boy takes on the POR without even disclosing the conflict. Often there are reasonable "work arounds" if everybody comes to the table in good faith in arriving at an understanding and agreement that is fair to both the boy and the unit.

My approach is pretty simplistic. I don't trust any water source unless it is clearly marked potable or I have been told by a reliable authority that it is potable. I usually carry a filter.

One advantage to filtering the water is that it helps keep boys busy doing something constructive.

The bubble you hear cracking is the far left bubble, not the conservative bubble.

I cannot give you a citation where the number five comes from, but it is somewhere in the language. The language you cite is not limiting, but only states that the references must INCLUDE the following. When scouts and adults have asked me this question I sometimes tell them that two educational references may be submitted to get to the total. I also tell them that other references can be almost anybody; neighbors, adult friends, more distant relatives etc. I did let one reference from a teen age sister go through, just because I thought that any boy who can get any kind word from a teen age sibling deserves recognition for that alone!!

Jay K,

Our process here is very similar except the legwork is usually done by the advancement person or an adult volunteer acting as "eagle coordinator" for the troop if it is a large troop.

One thing you say puzzles me. The eagle application is the primary paper work that goes to national AFTER it is signed by the BOR chair and the scout executive. Your description of the process has the paper work going into national before the EBOR.

Over the years, events have been occasionally canceled for lack of sufficient adult leadership.

The only weather related cancellations I have experienced have been due to high winds on open water when we were in open canoes. Fortunately tornadoes or the threat of tornadoes have never been a problem. We get thunderstorms in the mountains during the summer, but those should not result in outright cancellations. If we did cancel trips to the mountains due to the threat of thunderstorms, we would never go. Rather, we execute such outings in a manner to minimize the dangers.

silingpj has interpreted my post correctly. While tbe parents count as one of the references in the role as parents, for the parents to act as references for the educational and religious roles makes the whole process even less meaningful.

BadenP,

How am I suggesting an addition to requirements?

Beavah's points are all well taken. I cannot add to them.

I also think it wise for the SM to maintain a side record of MBs each scout is approved to work on. This allows the SM to better monitor progress. When a scout approaches the SM for a blue card, the SM can pull out his record and note that little Johnny is already working on ten other MBs and have an impromptu SM conference to discuss the scout's overall progress and find out where he may need some help.

The official policy at the national level merely requires the eagle candidate to provide names and contact information for five references. The guidance also allows councils to use letters in lieu of other contacts, and that is what we do locally here.

I think most people (like 99.99%) would understand that the requirement is for five different references. The boy should be required to come up with more names.

I have never had to deal with a home schooled scout, but the ShortRidge's suggestion is sound and reasonable.

Surely there are at least a few more people outside his immediate family and scout troop whom this boy knows. What about a neighbor or more distant relative?

Solely for eating purposes: a lexan plastic bowl, a lexan spoon or spork, and a lexan cup (not a Sierra cup). This assumes that the boy will be part of a cooking group using a group cookware set of some kind for actual food preparation.

Plastic is also better for cold weather camping.

The best bowls I have used were made by Tupperware. We used them for feeding our sons when they were infants. Unfortunately Tupperware does not make these particular bowls anymore.

Plastic will not transmit heat as readily as metal, thus reducing risk of burned fingers, and hot food cooling off too fast in really cold weather.

Your son may want the official BSA mess kit, but tell him that the really big boys don't use them. There are far better ways to spend your money for camping gear.

Gasoline for 14 cents a gallon.

Camping as a boy scout with nothing but army surplus pup tents.

One's parents going on a wait list to buy a new car in post WWII years.

Route 66 was a real highway.

Night time navigation aides for airplanes were big beacons with revolving searchlights along Route 40.

Floods on the Missouri River before all the upstream reservoirs were constructed.

Going to Cardinal baseball games at Sportsman's Park in St. Louis, which was actually owned by the St. Louis Browns.

Waiting for grandma to arrive on the Missouri Pacific Eagle at Jefferson City.

In somewhat later years, pot roast at 16 cents a pound.

Howard Johnson 26 flavors of ice cream (may still exist is some parts of the US)

Qualifying on the M-1 rifle and M-30 (?) carbine.

Slide rules, not calculators.

Adding machines, not calculators.

Punch cards and teletype machines.

For all the imperfections of our economic system, the real twits are the OWS people. The financial crisis that unfolded in 2008 was the direct result of government interventions that forced banks to make loans they would not have made without that pressure.

In fairness to the OWS twits, there is one of their demands I actually agree with:

"Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system."

The election system in the various states is under serious attack by left wing activists. We have an election fraud problem in this country and the main stream media do not want to talk about it.

After decades of abuse and scandal, Mexico finally cleaned up its elections, requiring among other things, photo ID for all voters. Mexico runs more honest elections that we do in many parts of our country.

The citations from the Cub Scout Committee Guidebook are interesting. There is nothing that detailed in the editions of the Troop Committee Guidebook that I have seen. One would think that, with larger amounts of money involved, the troop committee guidance would be similarly detailed.

Although my first adult scout volunteer position was as treasurer for a cub scout pack, we never had any committee training. Perhaps the syllabus for that did not exist then. Be that as it may I did what I felt I needed to do to get things under control and I provided monthly reports just because it seemed to be a smart thing to do. Only later did I realize that such reports in themselves are a useful tool for identifying and controlling mismanagement and/or outright fraud.

I have never seen or heard of debit cards issued to anybody for access to a unit bank account. I think that would be extremely foolish. If there is a genuine need for cash advances before a major outing or other outlay that required cash, it should be possible to anticipate such needs and get such cash to whomever legitimately needs it in sufficient time to meet the need.

The sad fact is that non profits such as churches, youth organizations, and booster clubs are particularly susceptible to embezzlement, so the committee for any type of scout unit needs to put in reasonable controls to minimize temptation. I don't think it is necessary to keep the records and check book out of the treasurer's hands until there is a proven problem. The treasurer has to be able to function.

As others have pointed out, there is no requirement for regular treasurer reports, and no formats for such reports are provided.

It is very odd that the person who is predicting insolvency is refusing to share the information upon which she asserts her claim. The committee chair needs to assert him(her)self about this, and if there is no response the chartered organization representative needs to get involved. Some kind of audit by a specially appointed committee is likely also in order.

When I have taught Troop Committee Challenge in the past and discussed the various positions, I have always pointed out that requiring regular treasurer reports is a valid mechanism for internal control of the funds. Other than the effort involved in doing that, no treasurer should be offended by or refuse such a request. If your treasurer continues in her resistance to sharing information, you need a new treasurer.

I am by no means an insurance expert, but in my experience most property insurance will cover either current market value or depreciated book value. If you want full replacement value it will be expensive.

It might be smarter to set up a separate "sinking fund" within your accounts to set aside funds to replace property when it is worn out, damaged, or lost. You would be essentially self insuring.

I don't know if the criminal background checks done by BSA would have caught this. It is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) that these checks focus on violent crimes and sex crimes. Does BSA even screen for other non violent crimes like a relatively petty embezzlement?

Clearly if the other people in charge of the fund raiser had known of this prior record they should never have put him in this position. Fortunately the amounts are quite minor.

Non profits like BSA at the unit level are particularly vulnerable to being ripped off, if someone is determined to do it.

Alternative energy does not look like a great investment, but that does not stop the Obama administration from throwing our money away. There is more to this than meets the eye. The primary owner of this company was a major "bundler" for the Obama campaign in 2008. But this guy walks out the door with minimal to zero losses.

New story below:

Solyndra, a major manufacturer of solar technology in Fremont, has shut its doors, according to employees at the campus.

"I was told by a security guard to get my [stuff] and leave," one employee said. The company employs a little more than 1,000 employees worldwide, according to its website.

Shortly after it opened a massive $700 million facility, it canceled plans for a public stock offering earlier this year and warned it would be in significant trouble if federal loan guarantees did not go through.

The company has said it will make a statement at 9am California time, though it's not clear what that statement will be. An NBC Bay Area photographer on the scene reports security guards are not letting visitors on campus. He says "people are standing around in disbelief." The employees have been given yellow envelopes with instructions on how to get their last checks.

Solyndra was touted by the Obama administration as a prime example of how green technology could deliver jobs. The President visited the facility in May of last year and said "it is just a testament to American ingenuity and dynamism and the fact that we continue to have the best universities in the world, the best technology in the world, and most importantly the best workers in the world. And you guys all represent that. "

The federal government offered $535 million in low cost loan guarantees from the Department of Energy. NBC Bay Area has contacted the White House asking for a statement.

Some Republicans have been very critical of the loans. "I am concerned that the DOE is providing loans and loan guarantees to firms that aren't capable of competing in the global market, even with government subsidies" Florida Congressman Cliff Stearns told the New York Times

I have always emphasized to new scouters and parents the importance of retaining all the cards, including rank advancement cards. Fortunately our council has improved, but having a backup at the family or scout level is always a good idea.

One thing that our council started doing some time ago on eagle scout applications was having the form submitted before the EBOR for review by the program official who would then sign, essentially certifying that all the eagle requirments had been met. More councils should do that.

Welcome back to scouting.

One other thing that you may not be aware of that is important to record keeping is that a few years ago BSA implemented membership numbers that are supposed to follow you around. If it has been ten years since you were last registered, chances are that you do not yet have such a number.

Of course BSA does not make it easy to find out what your number is. The number is printed on your membership card that will come with the rechartering package after the unit is rechartered. A lot of unit committee chairs do not automatically distribute these cards. You need to seek this out, and use the information. That way you increase the liklihood that you will be properly credited for all the training that you do.

I actually like popcorn, and the popcorn products sold by BSA are pretty good quality, but they are not a bargain. In general, when it comes to buying a food product from a non profit as a fund raiser I expect to pay a premium.

No pack or troop with which I have been affiliated participates in the popcorn sales. The troop with which I am currently affiliated does two car washes per year and gets a much better return on its effort. The car wash tickets are priced very competitively. We see no reason to climb on the popcorn bandwagon.

A really cool patch -- maybe

This movie is a light hearted piece of silly entertainment. My main criticism is that the title of the movie does not give due regard to the positive contributions of the Apaches in the movie. The movie really should have been named "Cowboys and Indians and Aliens" or something like that.

Be all that as it may, the best line in the movie comes when the settlers realize they are dealing with something realy really bad, and someone suggests that perhaps they should notifiy the territorial governor and request that the government come to their aid. Harrison Ford's obnoxious character responds to the effect that, "...and wait six months for them to send some west pointer to tell us what to do....," realizing that they at best had a few days to react to their situation and try to save their loved ones.

The movie had every stereotyped character and scene, but it was still entertaining.

I concur with the other posts. Participating at the event should not be a problem. However, soliciting funds or selling tickets for the event as a boy scout would likely cross a line that national does not want crossed.