eagle1977

Scoutfish, I don't think anyone here is remotely suggesting anything of the sort. You seem to be reading into this. As I have stated, along with others, this process is the culmination of the Scouting advancement ladder. The Scouting organization as a whole has placed a certain and specific value on the concept of being an Eagle Scout. I simply think that the mentoring process should include providing the Scout with all the tools required to put his best foot forward and present himself in a literate and appropriate light. I did not say the mentor, SM, parent, or anyone else should rewrite the application/workbook, rather they should assist him in finding the correct way to edit it if he asks for assistance.

If the goal of Scouting is assist a young man to become the most productive, well-rounded member of society that he can be then why would we stand back at the this point of his Scouting career and not give him the proper tools to effectively succeed? If we are going to project to the rest of our own organization and the rest of society that this young man represents the crme of the crop why would we as mentors allow him to submit a poorly worded or misspelled application?

I am not saying that we should redo the application for him or edit it so that it becomes the work of someone other than the youth. I am simply saying that we should guide him to the right people that can assist him. We want to have Eagle Scout be something of importance on a college application, yet if the Eagle Scout cannot spell the name of the college he is applying to what good is the honor. If we do not take the time to do right by him now when do we have the time or opportunity to do it?

JerseyScout has the right idea use his peers that have recently been through the process to guide the way. There is nothing wrong with that. I also like what Shortridge suggested using an open ended approach to encourage the Scout to relook at the application from an outsiders perspective. This is not school but it is life and I think that our program and life go hand in hand.

I miss Bob White!

But other than that I think this forum is among the best I have ever participated in. Mods keep up the good work!

How about this:

"The atheists... maintain that a religion that has to be learnt

from books written by men cannot be a true one. But they don't

seem to see that besides printed books... God has given us as one

step the great Book of Nature to read; and they cannot say that

there is untruth there - the facts stand before them... I do not

suggest Nature Study as a form of worship or as a substitute for

religion, but I advocate the understanding of Nature as a step,

in certain cases, towards gaining religion" (Rovering to

Success, Robert Baden-Powell, 1930, p. 181).

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scouting/rec.scouting.issues/section-11.html#ixzz0ZPaH36Pq

Skipper, not to be a drudge or anything but you said "I only earned 2 MBs after Eagle, enough for Bronze and Gold Palms." Doesn't it take 5 additional merit badges and three months active time in a patrol to earn a palm? That was what I had to do to earn mine.

I am just asking.

The report I saw on Fox also pointed out that one was studying to be a Mormon minister. I thought the lead in about the Boy Scout angle was a little titillating and sort of relieved when they included the additional religion angle. But not at all happy about the cruelty of the nature of the crime. So sad that teens are driven to such deprived behavior.

Barry,

From the Nobel site:

"The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided to award the Nobel Peace Prize for 2002 to Jimmy Carter, for his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development."

http://tiny.cc/1he0F

It goes on to describe Carter's continuing efforts to peace and human rights over the twenty years after he created the Carter Center as the main reason for their consideration in awarding the medal to him.

Our Troop of boys returned this Sunday from a very enjoyable weekend after attending Jimmie Dyess Days 2009 at Fort Gordon, Augusta, GA. What a wonderful experience. My hat is off to the many Scouts, Scouters, members of all branches of our Military, Emergency Personnel, dining facility staff and all other volunteers that pulled together to make this amazing event a success. More than 3000 Scouts of all sizes and organizations were on hand to learn about citizenship, the call to service, and selfless sacrifice that encompassed the life of Jimmie Dyess (the only American to ever be awarded the Carnegie Medal for Heroism and the Medal of Honor) an Eagle Scout from the Augusta area who died in 1944 during World War II.

Simply impressive. Our boys are looking forward to returning next year.

Thank you.

Our council is involved in a special all Scout activity weekend this week for a reasonable cost $37.00 per person at a nearby park. Here is a copy of the flier: http://tinyurl.com/kvh4qd. Our troop has decided to participate. We will see how it goes.(This message has been edited by eagle1977)

My Scoutmaster's name was George and we all referred to him respectfully as George. He was our mentor and our friend. I hail from a small dysfunctional troop that developed into a functional troop through George's watchful hands-off approach. He allowed the boys to learn and fail, lead and stumble, follow and grow. We had one Assistant and we referred to him by his first name as well, Sam.

Maybe it was a different era or something else, but at the end of the 70's in central PA it seemed that things were a little looser when it came to names and addressing adults. Today, the boys in our troop refer to the adults by Mr. or Mrs. I live close to a southern military installation now which may have a lot to with it. I also encourage my own children to refer to elected officials by their title when they talk about them out of respect for the office, so maybe some of it has rubbed off on me too!

Alright, I guess my response might sound a little silly but here goes. DR77 has some very reasonable points regarding blending boys and girls. I have served in the military and I understand his points. However, this has already been addressed by the Venturing program and that begins at 14. Why can't we simply allow kids to continue to mature separately until they are better prepared to mix. School districts throughout the country are exploring single gender schooling options through middle school because research shows kids learn better without gender related distractions.

If the process is indeed structured for a boy to earn his Eagle by the age of 13, why do we not allow him to do that. Then if he does not and he wants to branch out into a Venture Crew and he has met the requirements for First Class let him continue on to Eagle. But why do we need to include girls in the mix? Eagle Scout has been an achievement for boys for nearly 100 years can't we simply leave that tradition alone?

As a brief aside, in 1980 I was a young political science major at Penn State seeking knowledge of all thing political I decided to run as a delegate to the Democratic Convention. I sought out the advice of my mentor and he advised me to hitch my rope to the star of President Jimmy Carter if I wanted to go to New York and witness the convention. So there I was the second youngest elected delegate (by something like two weeks) to the 1980 Democratic Presidential Convention. What a wonderful experience. Talk about citizenship in the nation!

I have to agree with DR77. This is like all the Eagles that complain that President X or Y signed their card because they don't agree with their politics. Get over it. The accomplishment of earning the rank does not rest in the wallet card, rather, it rests in the life experience which hopefully you do not attempt o carry around in your wallet.

I was never aware of a wallet card. I earned my Eagle in 1977 (which means my certificate was signed by President Jimmy Carter, oh woe is me!) Yet it was not until I returned to Scouting last year that I ever got a wallet card (signed by President George W. Bush.) I was not concerned then and I am not concerned now.

I have decided to edit my profile and remove the reference to my military experience because it is not germane to this forum. It is only a small part of who I am and I do not need anyone making decision about me based upon their reflections of veterans or non-veterans.

Between 2-and 5% or something like that attain the rank of Eagle in Scouting. First Class has always been the stated goal of Baden-Powell and BSA. I would never willingly assist Bob White (who has seemingly disappeared from this forum) but your idea is simply elitist at best. If only the fewest of the few already earn the highest rank of Eagle and then only a mere handful earn all the merit badges available at any given time that would make them the fewest of the few. So let's give them your knot!

You did not even make a reference to my suggestion of the embroidered palms. So perhaps you are set in your path and not open to any new ideas.

I do not wish to joust with you over your desire to honor your brother or his memory. However, there maybe a better way in which to do this. Perhaps, you could do this in a more local or even personal way and produce a medal or certificate to present, in his name, to those who have achieved this feat of earning all the available merit badges. You could do this on your own while continuing to petition National for a square knot to adorn the uniform of Scouters. But through your current process you, sir are putting the cart before the horse. To suggest that it is proper to place something on the Scout uniform that is unauthorized simply because you think it should be there is truly an elitist concept.

Uniform means uniform. Uniform means the same. To me that means that I should be able to walk up to a Scout or Scouter in New York or California and expect to find the same uniform.

Troy,

our troop ran across a young man this summer, while we were camping out of council, who was proudly and very incorrectly, wearing 2 merit badge sashes festooned with 98 merit badges. This 13 year old Eagle Scout was very proud of himself for his accomplishments; yet he never presented himself in a proper Scout uniform throughout the entire week of camp. After some investigation it was determined that prior to joining his current troop he was a "Lone Scout" for the first two years.

Now it would be beneath me as a fellow Eagle Scout to doubt the veracity of this young man's story, however, there seems to be little that passes the makes sense test at least on the surface. To say the very least his current troop leadership is failing him miserably by not showing him the proper methods of scouting now.

So here is a 13 year old that already lays claim to 98 merit badges. Perhaps he should have a special square knot for earning the most badges the quickest. I must agree with the others that have stated that the earning of the badge and the knowledge gained in the process is the "prize" there needs to be no further recognition garnered. I do not wear my palm because I simply find the clasp to be uncomfortable. Perhaps, you could design and market square knots with embroidered palms on them and pitch those to National.

At least this is an item that is for sale by BSA. How long will it be allowed to be worn on the uniform?

"Also what about the YOUTH who are going through the course, shouldn't they receive something special besides a temp patch?"

Are they not getting training from this experience? Is that not the purpose of the whole event in the first place? Should they not be carrying that back to their respective troops with them to share with their fellow Scouts?

There is entirely too much emphasis placed on the awarding of "beads", "smokey bear hats" or "whatever" to set one person apart from others in the BSA. Scouting should be a classless organization of brother Scouts (or Arrowmen, or Venturers, or Sea Scouts.)

There have been different requirements for all aspects of Scouting from the very beginning. All the rank structures have changed over the years and some merit badges have been phased out while new ones have been added. I earned the camping merit badge when it was not a required badge. Does this mean my Eagle is of less value than others? I personally don't think so. Why should we teach Morse code to Scouts today when there are very few people that would know how to respond to it in an emergency?

Wood Badge has changed and adapted to as has been pointed out on this thread. We really need to put the focus back where it belongs. . . on the SCOUTS. If that means eliminating all square knots for adults I will take mine off first. Funny, though, mine are all youth related anyway!

Perhaps we could look at this from another angle. I am the youngest of five boys in my family and the only one that attained Eagle Scout. My father was an active Scouter for most of his life. While my earning Eagle was my accomplishment and the letters and declarations I received from our state representative were rightfully meant for me; maybe, just maybe, they were also a recognition of the example my father set for me and the mentoring he provided to help me achieve my goal. Life and Scouting is a shared journey.

I certainly remember this 13th point from my days as a Northern Scout in the '70s. Funny thing is nobody here in the South seems to remember that at all!

The simple problem here revolves around the Scout law. There is no ambiguity surrounding those 12 points., They are the things that we should as as adults as youth be striving to achieve. I am struggling, mightily, to figure where the ingestion of urine, or the mere suggestion of the same meets any of the points of the law. Aren't we supposed to be mentoring our boys that the Scout Oath and Law are the tenets that they should be measuring their lives by? These decisions should be ingrained in their thought processes (you know whether or not someone is looking) so that they are just second nature. Their decisions should not be couched in whether or not some wiley defense lawyer will be able to get them off the charges based on the concept of what they intended the "victim" to believe they intended to do to him.

If I am holding you against your will and I am older than you and out number you in force, and I am able to convince you the "victim" that I have two bottles of urine that you are going to be forced (against your will) to consume then it is urine. It does not matter at the time of the offense if it is pond water, apple juice, or urine. As the victim under the circumstances it IS URINE because you told me it IS URINE.

This was not a prank to the boy it happened to. This was not a game to the boy it happened to. Some boys will snap back rather quickly and some will not. Xlpanel are you qualified to to determine if the victim in this case is ok? What is your background? Are you qualified to counsel him and ensure that his mental health is ensured?

xlpanel,

I get the concept of devil's advocate but let's not stray too far from the root problem here. Body spray can and will wash off. Urine by its very nature is human waste and while it too will wash off the effect will be far longer lasting!

This was not a prank, this was a willful attempt to terrorize this young man and put him "in his place". The four individuals that decided to dole out his punishment did not live up to any of the basic tenets of Boy Scouting (you remember those don't you the Scout Oath and Law?). They all need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law regardless if this will scar them for the remainder of their lives, likely it will the offended 12 year old they kidnapped and assaulted!

Lisabob you said:

"As for the super soaker thing. Dean, I'm sorry you appear to have over-zealous people running your council's cub events, but this really is a matter of interpretation and not clear BSA national policy. Unlike laser & paintball, there is no mention of super soakers in the G2SS language. While I suppose it could be interpreted that way, in reality, a super soaker bears so little resemblance to a "fire arm" that I also think it could very easily be argued that the ban on simulated firearms does not include tubes of water being sprayed at each other."

I think that is plain wrong. Super soakers are in fact shaped like a rifle with a barrel, a stock, and a trigger mechanism. In order to inflict a watery injury on your opponent you must aim the "weapon" in their direction, right? A weapon is a weapon is a weapon. This is simply a matter of calling a spade a spade.

The bottom line of course is simple, however, if you want to participate in laser tag, paint ball, or any other activity that is contrary to the G2SS, simply do not do it as a an organized Scouting event. Allow the boys to organize it on their own time, away from the meeting time, and let them be boys for heaven's sake.

By the way the correct word word is reenactment!

I think we as adult leaders should be in the position of educating the scouts by setting the proper example. No electronics should be no electronics for everyone. However, I am not naive enough to think that is possible. There are reasons for some Scouters to be connected back to the real world because of jobs and other possible emergencies. However, these adults should be respectful enough of the program to step aside and conduct their business quietly.

Eagle732 couldn't the same warning have been accomplished with the use of a two-way radio? This would limit the communication to that between you and the PL or SPL only.

I have to agree that this is a deplorable idea. I am not a fan of the merit badge university concept either. I was thinking the other day that, with the exception of the Klondike Derby, our council does not have any real, meaningful competition among the troops. When I was coming up (back in the dark ages!) we had quarterly competitions at the district level. They were usually held on a Saturday at a gym or some other public building, not always at camp in other words, and there would be a patch for all participants, a trophy of some sort, and a streamer for the Troop flag for the top three winners. We held First Aid meets, Scout craft meets, and of course the Klondike Derby, hopefully on a snowy weekend. These were opportunities to show off what we had spent time learning and practicing and a great deal of fun.

What happened to that type of activity? Has the BSA gone the way of a lot of other activities and become an organization that places emphasis on participation over competition and learning. Does that mean that everyone attains Eagle now just like everyone gets to play on the t-ball team?

It certainly seems to be true if you decide to think that the posting from Daddy_O is realistic!

(This message has been edited by Eagle1977)

Our council is between camps right now. We recently sold our camp to a developer and have been in the process of locating a suitable replacement site for a time. They have recently selected a site and are in the process of due diligence now. This quote is from our 5 year strategic plan:

"Recommend a minimum of $9 million be raised to build a complete Scout

resident camp. This does not include the site itself, a separate Cub Scout facility

or facilities for activities beyond Scouting. It is the strong recommendation that

no capital expenses be incurred until the money is in the bank and budgeted. In-kind

donations and volunteer labor are expected to extend the available money."

Keep in mind that the council is planning on building and improving the new camp as the funds become available rather than in a build it they will come mindset. But at least that gives you a benchmark to compare against.