Eagle Foot

The correct answer is what Bob White says SPL & PL are the only elected.

In a new scout troop consessions are made with the new leadership. In an older troop where they know the ropes the SPL will have to do a good job.

You can't expect to play in the big game if you don't show up for pratice...

The SPL can be removed by the SM if he feels that the SPL is not giving it his best or is just wearing the patch. I think it is good for them to be elected, it is also unfortunate if the SPL has to be replaced during his term, but it will make other scouts see just how important the position is. These are leadership roles that are applicaple to other walks of life and it should be taken seriously.

(edited by Eagle Foot)

Good answers...what I'm trying to see is that in the SPL handbook it says that the SPL is not a member of a patrol. Other than that (I may have overlooked)there is nothing else...where does he go? Does he or should he have additional duty rooster responsibilities? I do as SM, I would think he would also.

This has come up because I made the statement that I wanted the SPL to stay with his patrol because the patrol had less than eight members (six). An ASM challanged my ruling told me I coulden't do that...of coarse it was in front of the scouts. Maybe I'm wrong (please advise so) but if I as SM decided the SPL stays with his patrol, camp, eat,sleep & shared in basic duites in addition to SPL duties I could do that. However I would like to start a staff patrol, but the troop isen't big enough. Good idea about SPL & ASPL with the adults, but they still get duty rooster duties. In addition if they are out of the same patrol this really cuts the patrol down in size if it only had 6 members to start with.

(edited by Eagle Foot)

How does the SPL of your troop position himself with the troop when it comes to camping? Do you include the SPL with the adults or do you expect the SPL to be with the patrol he was detached out of? I know the SPL is not a member of a patrol when he becomes SPL.

Any suggestions on the best way to jump start an old troop. I am the new SM of this troop which is going on twenty five years old and has nothing. There are thirteen scouts chartered and about 10 active. They have some pretty lax habbits about scouting. Not very organized. Parents argue with you about meeting times, they want 1 hour, can come in late and leave early if needed and don't seem to want to make any commitment. Everybody will leave you hanging before a campout untill the last minute then only 3-4 show up for camping. You can't cancil to those that show up....I'm thinking that they should reavaluate their commitment to scouting or leave. I've got one good ASM and one who seems not to get it... and keeps his little group doing what he wants. Of coarse he won't get trained.

Just a quick post not much time for details...

(edited by Eagle Foot)

As a Scoutmaster I try to never cancel a camping trip. Not to say that bad weather and or lack of adults for two deep has made it a challange sometimes. In the winter I'll encourage the scouts to do winter cabins one month. If winter cabins are not available somewhere that there is a good pavilion.

I usually conduct a JLT in Feb. at local scout camp using their pavalion and other shelters. We try never to cancel because of bad weather. Our troop has a scout hut with pavilion,,,if things get tough we can camp on the church gounds and use the pavalion. This puts us close enough to home that aduls can swap out their time. What I'm saying is get your PLC to look down the road and make a plan ABC & D if needed to keep things moving.

FOG,

Thanks for the correction...to bad they "ARE NOT"

You are right SM has to sign the blue card. In our district they do a pretty good job. Hey I've got a guy in our troop who's been handing out Merit Badges like they were candy, gets the blue card afterwards... then takes it to the SM...because the new SM did not know.

I haven't read the Advancement Guidline booklet, but I will be reading it by the weekend. Any other good reading to get to stay up with advancement?

Thanks FOG for all you do in Scouting

Eagle Foot

Go/send him to Merit Badge Day...doesn't matter if the troop supports it or not...he can register as one (1) from the unit. I'm pretty sure they won't turn him down. Why would they? I've been to a bunch of these and we always had one (1) scout form a unit...we just worked him in.

Too bad the troop is above supporting this, Merit badge day is another way to continue earning Merit Badges that the unit may not have covered.

(edited by Eagle Foot)

Bob White is right. If the counselor is not registured then the Merit Badge will not be valadated.

I am having the same important problem with a troop I started working with (that's why they ask for help)

The worst part of all of this is, it is not helping the boys get what they need to get from earning the merit badge.

There is a ASM in the troop who is serving as a counselor and signing off merit badges who is not registured for either or that paticuliar merit badge...nor does he have either job experience or advocation in them, he just decides this is what we are working on.----Can't do that----

My position on this is that the Scoutmaster is going to have to void any merit badge awards to those Scouts not being counseled by a registured counselor, and that the counselor follows all of the requirements associated with the badge. I say Scoutmaster because the committee is no longer...it has broken up... no one is willing to take on responsibility. (The Untrained)

As part of my duties (I am advancement chairman) I will also advise this... we have scouts who's parents have signed off on requirements...

The problem is they think they are still in Cub Scouts. The boys go to the Scoutmaster or advancement chair. and get a blue card then the merit badge counselor and they arrange the process.

The important thing now is to get on track now, what happen in the past is there, if an Eagle board reviews qualifications of merit badge counselors and finds someone was not qualified, you may have a problem. It is important that we do what we can to avoid this. For the good of the boys and for the good of the troop.

(comments by Eagle Foot)

I think you should go and get the knot. I got my knot and I recieved my Arrow of Light in 1962. A scout is Trustworthy. Anyway I think anyone who has been in Scouting for any length of time can sifer out those who may or may not have done exactly everything required for a knot.

I have noticed that in most cases (not all) those who have stacks of knots...lets just say those who wear a couple seem to be with the program.

---I did have my card with me just incase the Scout office asked for proof. They diden't.

--edited by Eagle Foot---

I got the BSA Woodsman Knife, now all I need to do is find my template so I can make a leather holder. I pick this template up 3 years ago hoping some day I would get a knife to put in it.

BSA Woodbadge Ring...really my treat for Christmas...funny how your wife will not have much to say about Scouting or do you really need to keep that cup cliped to your belt? She out did herself in getting this ring. Defied all laws of shiping and got it in record time.

Eagle Foot

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to all of you...Do your Best, Help one another, and Do a good turn Daily. God bless all of you. You are pioneers in the scouting movement.

Eagle Foot

How many boys registered? 17

How many boys active? 14

How many Patrols? 3---1 to many

Does your troop go to summer camp in or out of Council? In Council

Does your troop go to Dist/Council Camporees? Yes

Does your troop support FOS? Yes

Does your troop sell Popcorn? Yes If not, what are your fundraisers?

Does your troop use NSP, FCFY method? FC in 12-18 months

Does your troop have a Venture Patrol? No

Does your troop have a feeder pack? Yes...Our feeder pack needs better adult leader training...they set some bad habits.

How does your troop recruit non-Cub Scouts? Word of mouth, friends

Has your troop seen your Unit Commissioner in the past 6 months? Yes...he is ok...need to be better trained

Is your Unit Commissioner helpful or a pain? Helpful but a pain too, He's to much "They way we used to do it"

Does your troop leaders attend Roundtable? Yes me (ASM) and the SM

How many members are on your troop committee? One and a half

Is your troop boy led? No...working on it

FOG hit the nail on the head, sounds like he's been there done that. The Scoutmaster wants the change, he just can't get it going by himself.

Yes...it's a group of "we've allways done it like this'. My son wants to get back into scouting...I'm not so sure I'd want him in the troop untill some changes can be made.

I apprecieate this feedback...this form really has some good folks. I'm gonna present some changes to be put forth to the Scoutmaster, if he doesen't want to do them I may consider taking the invite to start a new troop in March. My problem is "I just love this stuff"

By the way the problem ASM is also Cubmaster...Can he really be listed as ASM & Cubmaster? I diden't think you could dual reg...just one or the other in leadership...I'll recheck

I was asked by a Scoutmster to join his troop --with appointment form the COR and what troop committee was in place.

This troop is what I call a "run-a-gade troop". Doing things not the BSA way. Parents signing off on advancement, ASM's handing out merit badges like candy, ASM's taking "Their Patrol" camping or activity opposing the troops.

NO --- NOBODY HAS BEEN TRAINED...just if you are asking yourself.

The Scoutmaster wants to let them run arye...with the new scouts and one other patrol get a handle on things as they are suppose to be and just allowing the other older scout patrol to do it's own thing.

[The other patrol is made up of older scouts twelve to fourteen years old}

I say no ... absoultly no...correct it to what it should be, let the adults know and the ASM's know...yes some may leave, this seems to be a real problem.

The Scoutmaster doesen't want to lose anyone, and I understand and apprecieate this want.

I know that the boys and the troop would be better if this can be corrected rather than allowed it to continue. After all it is the boys troop. Yes I'm an outsider to the troop, the Scoutmaster and the COR felt the troop needed this. We have also had our unit advisor out,,,they just look at him like he's crazy.

I seen no support or respect to the Scoutmaster, they wanted him... they just will not support him.

Comments and feed back is welcome before I cast my views to the Scoutmaster.

(this submittle edited by Eagle Foot)

I became a Scoutmaster because my son was moving up to Boy Scouts from Cubs. I was ask to start a troop.

I had a great program, I thought everything would be great, but soon my great program began to fall apart. Why? because I had real conflict with ASM's who wanted to do everything there way, little by little, but they did not want the responsibility of SM. They favored their scouts from cubs and this caused problems with others.

My son had conflict after contflict with their click, the others just quit. Trying to change this group was imposible. The ASM's never saw the big picture. I left the troop simply because neither my son nor I were haveing fun.

It left a bad tast with my son, sure it would have been nice to get rid of those in the click, but that woulden't work.

I'm still in scouts as an ASM with another troop, and my son...well maybe, the main thing the boys like to do is have fun. I have found that the one answer to the question asked a scout why he quit is "He wansen't having fun" no matter the program if they are not having fun they won't stay.

It's still the same "Fun with a pourpose" if it's not being delivered. The scouts will leave.

To kick it up a knotch...we have a couple of troops that have the Webelos II meet with the Boy Scout troop. They are part of the opening they repeat the scout oath and the pledge. Thay are also part of the closing circle and the scoutmsters minute.

Inbetween opening and closing they meet with their Webelos leader to conduct their program in Webelos II. Timing is set the same as the troop. When the troop has an inter-patrol game the Webelos join in as a patrol.

This is going great, the cross over into that troop is at almost 100%. Everybody knows each other, every knows what is expected, and the new scout patrol comes in shining so bright that the other scouts have to "kick it up a knotch" to keep up. Before they cross over they do visit other scout troops and are given the oppertunity to make that decision, some change but usually only one or two.

Webelos I meet with their pack...

Webleos II meet with the chartered troop. This works very well at bring up new membership keeping the troop strong. There is also a very good exchange going on also using Den Chiefs.

Also another bit that is working is using Eagle Scouts as a "SPL" type figure head in a new troop when all are below the rank of Tenderfoot. This is really looking good...they boys follow. Good selection is important though if using the Eagle Scout.

(edited by Eagle Foot)

Life Scout

Arrow of Light

Assistant Cubmaster

Cubmaster

Scoutmaster two times

Assistant Scoumaster

Current advancement chariman

Current Assistant Scoutmaster

Current Boy Scout Camping Chairman for District

Have just been ask to start and serve as Scoutmast of another troop in March of 2004...don't know...wow...I just love this stuff.

Uniformed adult, who demonstrates by example Scouting ways.

Patience, Practice, Prepared and Plans.

Has the sprit of youth and the discipline of experience.

Friend and companion to his fellow man.

Vespers,

Should Vespers be manditory in attendance?

[Troop level to Camporee level]

What are some of your views on Vesper services.

What are some of your best remembered services?

If adults do not attend but make their scouts attend, is this showing quality leadership?

Questions by Eagle Foot....

What is a Jamboree?

...Social Gathering

...Gettogether

...Festivity

...Event

...Celebration

What is a Scout?

...Explorer

...Reconnoiter

...Inspector

...Surveyor

...Scrutinizer

Does this help?

[Edited by Eagle Foot]

My walking stick, cut when I was fourteen at Philmont...I'm 51 now...

Eagle Foot ...still walking

I'm with tieing her to the tree!! Sounds like some folks may not be trained.

If they are they need a refresher course. I've seen this and been there. My only suggestion other than the tree is to talk with your SM in privite with your COR... do not do this one on one it may turn into he said, she said, they said type of talk and nobody made any progress.

Troops should be boy run, with the adult SM insuring that the program is being presented. See what you can get from the PLC and make sure it follows the Scout Law & Oath. Our goal here is not to get ride of anyone but to find workable solutions. Most think of BSA as camping, knots, good deeds, and helping others. Boys would like to be with boys and the adults giving them this oppertunity.

Does your troop have a troop guide? A lot of good troops have them just for these type of problems...but there only good if the committee, PLC, SM and other leadership stick by them.

Scouts is for you the scout not the adult...you may have to visit another troop that provides this, you need to be happy where your are. I just hate it when an adult pushes their weight around and doesn't have the full understanding of how it all works. If enough boys do the right thing I think it will change. Good luck

Comments form Eagle Foot

This is something that has come up lately in our district. While contacting scout troops about participating in our fall camporee I discovered that we were going too, or had allready lost about 4 Boy Scout troops. 2 to 3 more were just hanging in there. Mostly due to no new members. The troops had not actively recruted new scouts. They had not set as part of their troop program new membership.

What happen???...the boys they had gotton older, Boys advanced to Eagle, some of the boys left the troop....but no new scouts ever came into the troop or the one or two that did was not enough to keep the troop strong. The boys never had younger boys to teach.

You must present a good program, you must encourage new membership with a pack. You must know your fellow Cubmaster's in your area. You must take the time to introduce yourself and invite second year webelos to your troop. You must take some time and visit the webelos.

Make two or three visits during the year...that could really make the difference. Does your troop have a Den Chief program? Do you know what packs are in your area? Do you know approx. how many second year webelos will be crossing over?

If you answer no to either question your troop may be in membership trouble down the road.

We all know that the scouts in the troop don't want to be with the webelo's all the time, but if webelos did something with the troop 2 to 3 times a year...you could just about count on them crossing over into your troop.

Is your troop boy run? or is it adult run?

Boy run will attract webleos...adult run will attract adults. What's the goal here? What's scouting all about? As an adult the hardest thing for me to do is to butt out.

Cub packs always could use a good boy scout troop to do an opening pack meeting with the posting of the colors. Do it to impress the cubs...be sharp!! Dress the part!!

Something new one troop is going to start is having the second year webelos meet the same night as the troop...participate with the troop in the opening, then retire to another section for the webelos meeting. Point is...the second year webelos are meeting the same time same place. Most likely they will cross over into the troop. We will see how this works out.

Comments form Eagle Foot

Bats right

Kicks right

Golfs right

Paints (with brush) right & left

Hammers (with nails) right & left

Writes (on black board) right & left

Writes (on paper) left...caint figure this out!!!!

Throws right

Trailers really help out:

...however--you need someone who will pull it for ever time you go out.

...you will need to store it somewhere, where it will be safe.

...you will need to do one of two things

1. tag it with the charter orginazation and be willing to share it.

2. tag it with an individual and you may loose it if they leave.

...try to to do #1 it's the best way to go and keep it at the CO., otherwise you may have limited acess.

Lowe's and Home Depoit have trailers...a good trailer will run around

$1,800.00 to $2,000.00

If you can find a good used 8x10 expect to pay around $500.00 to 1m. Bigger trailers run $2,400. + or -.

I found if the Charter Organization owns the trailer you stop personl influence from someone who has good intentions, but really never lets go. It should be the boys anyway!!! good luck

Eagle Foot