Eagle Foot

Our council accepts annual tour permits. Now saying that...it only excepts annual tour permits to council property as blanket coverage for one year. This was a debate a few years ago until the council sent a letter to all units. They would except an annual tour permit only if you went to council proptery. No exceptions!!! It also advised that each unit leader was responsible to update the permit if at anytime anything changed, otherwise it was void.

 

I suppose this was an attempt to reduce paper work for those who did not like to do paper work.

 

It has always been interesting to me why people do not like to follow rules. That's the easy part...the hard part is all of the stuff around the rules.

 

Tour permits are ment to help protect us as scouts and scouters. Part of the rules...I've allways made my children give me a tour permit when they leave the house. Where are your going?Who will you be with ? How many are going? What are you going to do? What time are you leaving? What time will you be back?

 

Tour Permits---the basics of communication, survival information for Search and Rescue, accountability.

 

The best search and rescue is the one that diden't happen.

 

Eagle Foot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have much time on this...but the committee is not required to vote on anything as I read it in the committee guide book. The scouts decide on what they are to do and present it to the committee. Then the commitee does it's best to make it happen if it is reasonable.

 

If it is unreasonable the only reason it gets that far is because the SM let it. The boys run the troop, the committee is there to support the troop, the SM delivers the progrom. I've seen this before...been there done that. It's not much furn, it's really the boys troop...the PLC needs to decide who, what, when, where, how!!!

Eagle Foot

I don't have much time on this...but the committee is not required to vote on anything as I read it in the committee guide book. The scouts decide on what they are to do and present it to the committee. Then the commitee does it's best to make it happen if it is reasonable.

 

If it is unreasonable the only reason it gets that far is because the SM let it. The boys run the troop, the committee is there to support the troop, the SM delivers the progrom. I've seen this before...been there done that. It's not much furn, it's really the boys troop...the PLC needs to decide who, what, when, where, how!!!

Eagle Foot

From Woodbadge

Eagle Patrol,...

There are really a multiple of times:

The time when I was fourteen years old me and other scouts from my troop and others at least twenty or so scouts were taken out into know where. We were given compass cordinates on a Friday evening around 10pm and had to be back at the Worth Ranch mess hall Sunday at noon. (twenty miles+) One live chicken and teams of 4 (1 chicken per every 2 scouts)...thats all untill Sunday lunch. We did have to cross the Brazos river and we did loooooooooooose some stuff, but everybody made it ok, and it was in Jan. Moooooooooore later as I have time to write.

What,What,What, Where did I miss these new requirements on the arrow of light. I must have been wraped up with the upcoming fall camporee, what has change in the requirements?

 

Eagle Foot

Up Date........

sctmom & caddmommy

 

I stepped down form the position. If you have to convience members of the committee that when one of them threatens another then you have problems. They are friends...at our committee meeting this guy even said he was going to hit me and if I approached him again he may do it. His words were him or me *^@!!&*%%. Then he left the room. He wasen't playing...

 

To me this is a no brainer---duaaaa...why would I have to convience the troop committe this is wrong. They were ticked he left. Sometimes spit happens. These folks all started in cubs...they had their way of doing things.

 

Sure I could have him ousted, personal law suit, or any of the other types of charges one would bring to somebody who intends to do bodily harm. Best thing to do....find another group...when the whole is blind you are up against some pretty stiff odds.

 

A lot of times folks will say nothing because they don't want to hurt feelings. I've seen this before... I can replace adults, the group is more concerned about getting the trouble makers (at least what they thought) out of the troop. Seems like to me the boys who have a few problems are the ones who really need scouting.

 

 

 

 

 

What extent can Webelos Scouts camp with Boy Scouts? For example: Webelos (2nd year) are invited to a Camporee where the Boy Scouts will be camping in patrol form using only what they can carry, packing all of their food in. Each patrol group will move to a station set up for wilderness survival instructions, each group will be allow 30 minutes for demonstration, information, and some hands on. Can Webelos participate as part of a scout patrol? Can they camp with the boys without an adult present but near?

 

The Webelos who must have an adult present (parent or guardian)can the adult be present but not directly in contact? But on the property? How far removed? Does BSA policy require the adult be present with the Webelos while they are with the Boy Scouts? Where are the supervision boundaries?

 

Guide to Safe Scouting

A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by his mother or father. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of an adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts are encouraged for dens of fifth-grade Webelos Scouts with their parents to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

 

Let me clarify more---Survival techniques not just survival in the woods, more along the lines of what can be done with some practical. Im looking for some of you who may have put something together like this in the past. I am not looking for the boys to pick berrys, set snares, trap wild animals, or set up a bird net for tonights meal. Im looking for information that can be of the same mind with mine.

You are right buffalo2; I want stations set up, that the scouts can navigate too. Get started at night with a compass coordinate to go to and set up their camps as patrols.

Each group given a specfic coordinate, which will have another coordinate for the next day leading them to a station, then another to the next. The scouts will be given food at check in...or they bring what they can carry: Sat am, Sat noon, Sat pm, Sun am.

 

Lets say twelve stationsI suppose there will be twelve groups? I dont know.

Stations: 1)Lost 2)Shelter 3)Friendly Fires 4) Signaling for Rescue 5) Signals for direction 6)Finding water 7) Food 8) First aid in the wilderness 9) Survival use of plants 10)Finding your way 11) Spiritual survival checklist 12) 24 hour ready pack checklist.

Looking at covering wilderness survival MB RQMTS covered. BSA Rank requirement covered.

 

If fishing is possible catching some fish, preparing and showing evidence you cooked and ate themshould be worth some mighty fine bonus points. I want them to have fun and pick up a few things.

 

Thanks Eagle Foot

 

I am looking for some good ideas for a survival camporee for boy scouts. Something that will pretty much use their skills from Tenderfoot through First Class. What I am looking for is someone who has done this....some of the logistics, station activities, I'm looking to possibly have all scouts bring in just what they can carry in their pack...what do you think the boys would like? A Baen-Powell survival...fun.

 

Eagle Foot

mgaesser

 

This is along the same thread I just finished posting. ASM anger, as unfortunant as these things are you and your scout have to do what is right. As the advice I recieve form this form (some great thinkers with excellent wisdom) is...follow the scout Oath, Law, & God's golder rule... I recieve no back up from my CC or commitee because they just really wanted to avoid futher conflict, and having this spread around the district. Very important that you stick with what is right. Anytime an adult strikes a youth is a big problem. Anytime an adult threatens another adult is a big problem. You must be with those who YOU know are not like this and those who will stand for what is right. We need to get back to BP and Hillcout with scouting fundimentals. We need to really be where right is right and not a compromise. For me I pulled my SM position and my son...I just can not except sweeping this under the carpet. Someday someone will roll the carpet back...who knows what they will find Good luck.

 

Eagle Foot

jbroganjr

I agree with your post. Well ASM left after the meeting diden't think he had done anything wrong. As far as taking critisim about his son he wasen't up to listening. Complained how he had to pick the ball up all the time...my form of leadership is.... if you start something keep going with it... it's the best way to learn how to do it better.

 

CC woulden't back me, the committee was 50/50 I offored to change leadership...no takers. They put me on notice that my son and a couple of other scouts were on thin ice. I do agree to a certain extent. That justs a way to say we are a click not a movement and we are going to get rid of those we don't like.

 

ASM feels like I have jepordized his position in the council...I'm really sadened that this troop don't feel that threats to other adults by adults should be taken seriously. The troop was very upset that I took this outsid the troop to the COR before I took it to the CC. Normally I'm not a quiter...but since this group is gunning looks like they win in the end.

 

You can't judge scouting by this but it makes staying in tough. I think they are ready to have a change...ready or not. Doesn't seem as the best intrest of the boys is first.

So what happened...well I have contacted my COR and we met. He agreed that this sort of thing should not go undone. He would like to get both sides of the incident so we are haveing a committee meeting tomorrow night (Tuesday). It's as if he would like to give the ASM another chance....he wants to throw it to the committee. I've already said if this happens I will be compromising my position...reguardless...adults do not do this.

 

Adults in scouting do not openly call the boys moorons (sp). Two other adults saw this...they agree this is not good. I feel if the committee goes with giving another chance I'll have to make some sort of decision (either stay or leave) the troop. I may possibly open it up to the council since he is on council staff. I don't need a loose cannon in scouting...who's to say when he will go off again. These are the guys that think because they are on staff or work with the council and district thay they have some special gift. That they can pull strings...maybe they can...I'm not so sure I want to be around these guys.

 

In scouting the PLC runs the troop with guidence from the scoutmaster and others (ASM's and the committee)if one person (ASM) calls all of the shots, does not meet with the scoutmaster, and concures how we are going to do things, I think they need a wake up call. Especially if they tell the scoutmaster they are going to knock his head off. He's gotta go!!!

 

Sure I don't want this...it's unfortunant, but its gotta be done. He needs to find out this is what happens. They would do it to me. I'm not happy about this. What am I suppose to do? Let him stay with the promise he will never do it again...sure stay just not in this troop. Am I suppose to let him take the scouts to summer camp? He thinks he's in charge... not once has he talked with me about it. What a mess it becomes when one adult wants to have everything their way. To bad I diden't see him at Woodbadge.

I think I am missing something?

 

If I drive must I have another adult in the vehicle if I have another scout in the vehicle with me who is not my son?

 

If I am the last at the troop meeting and another scout is still waiting for his ride and my son is with me, must there be another adult present?

 

I thought I understood this...

 

Correct me !

 

Eagle Foot

Sounds like everybody is on target. I pass out the permission sheets two weeks before the campout, included is a list of basics for the season, (I use troop master for permission sheets) that way every scout is listed by name and the patrol that they are in. This is due back to me with the money at the troop meeting before the campout. The money goes to the patrol grubmaster...you do not pay the budget for the patrol is what is paid. No promises...if you show up with out paying you had better have brought some food or you will be sent home. If you pay and don't show up...no problem...just more food for the patrol. No refunds...if you can catch the grubmaster before he has bought the food you might have a chance to get your money back.

 

You have to come up with something...this works for us, if not this will continue to be a problem.

 

Good luck...happy camping & good eating.

I am not really sure how to approach this. My ASM continues to be really bossy with the scouts (and everybody else in general) This past weekend at a whitewater camping trip he blew up. As a rule we do not let our scouts buy cokes, candy, etc. with patrol money...as a patrol for their meals. I'v never stoped them from doing so if we on a trip and make a stop...they do it with their own money.

 

During our trip my ASM decided to feed everybody pizza because our chicken had not thawed out for dinner. I had know problem with this...but it was more or less told rather than discussed. Some of the scouts (with out me knowing --SM--) bought a soft drink. My son came to me and wanted a softdrink because some of the others had bought soft drinks.

 

(I have no problem with the boys buing soft drinks when we are out if they have their own money. I do not allow soft drinks to be bought with patrol money as part of the patrol menue.

 

The ASM also told them not to drink any mork of the "Bug Juice" because we were going to run out wait until the pizzas are ready.

 

My son came back to me and told me the ASM woulden't let him buy a coke 'Diet'

 

He is not suppose to have the sugar in 'Bug Juice'. I confronted the ASM and his response was....he threw is hat off pulled off his jacket and told me he was going to knock my head off. He diden't want to discuss this and that was the rule NO COKES peroid.

 

He was unaware that the others were buying soft drinks...as I was also unaware. We had 32 people out on this activiy and some parents.

 

My problem is...never before in my life has this happen. An adult making this kind of physical threat...he's also on the council committee. My reaction is to get away form this stuff. We had discussed this before...but it's a problem of sort term memory.

 

His son seems to have a major disipline problem and he (ASM) fails to want to deal with it. The boy continues to pick on the other scouts. I know he blew up because I continue to challange him about some of the things he does. (he has had training) but feels like because he is on the council committee he has clout.

 

At this point I'm ready to quit, my son is ready to quit, my wife is ready for us to quit. There seems to be know discussion with this guy. He's right and your right if you go alone with him. It's not a case where all the other leaders want him to go...there just not goin to get involved.

 

My son doesen't want to change troops, or he will drop out.

 

Maybe I'm from the old school, but I always thought that ASM's came to the SM before they made commitments with the scouts (ex. sending them to council camp as staff members for cubing programs..ie. spookaree, Webelo's residence ect.)

or allocated troop money form the treasurer(tipping our white water guides)or made decisions for the troop such as buying pizza without running it buy the SM. All in all we ran over the budget this weekend and went into troop funds beyond what was collected for this outing. Unfortunatly I at a disadvantage...most of my ASM's were together with him with cubs

 

Your answers will be apprecieated, because of the gravity of this problem I decided to post it for some responses. Thanks Eagle Foot

THE NECESSARY NECKERCHIEF

The Neckerchief a Heritage from Scouts of Old

The smart and necessary neckerchief is the only spot, apart from the badges and insignia, in which the practical, earth-hued uniform of the Scout flowers into color. Like the painted sails of the boats of Venice, the age-old fez of Cairo's bazaars, and the paint box sweaters of a college campus, the Neckerchief, "a heritage from the Scouts of old, the pioneer and the plainsman," gives life to the sober dress of the Boy Scout. And that touch of color is the one thing needed to catch the eye and to stir the enthusiasm of the spectators when the parade swings down the avenue and horn and drum and cymbal stir the soul.

 

The Neckerchief is a passport for the Scout. Scouting says that at Santa Barbara following the earthquake, and in Illinois and Indiana during the tornado disaster, the Scouts' Neckerchief was a passport for any Scout through the police and hospital lines.

 

The Scout Troop which is uniformly and colorfully neckerchiefed stands out as a beautiful unit in a crowded hall, on parade, and in the summer audience in shady woods. The adoption of a Troop Neckerchief makes it easy for a Scout to find his own crowd, for the Neckerchief both identifies and promotes Scouting.

 

When help is needed in a hurry, the Scout with his colored Neckerchief is quickly recognized, and his Good Turn is done with grateful swiftness.

 

The Neckerchief is the thing by which Scouting is most quickly recognized the world over.

 

Emergencies call loudest to the Scout for the Neckerchief, for life itself may depend upon it. In a moment it is a bandage, a smoke mask, or a lifeline.

 

THE TESTED NECKERCHIEF

So much depends upon the Neckerchief that it is subjected regularly to careful tests and inspections before it can qualify as the Official Scout Neckerchief.

 

 

The Tested Neckerchief

The complete Scout Uniform requires it, and requires it worn correctly: not under the collar; not rolled and worn half way down on the chest; but flat, according to Scout regulations, over the collar of the shirt and held in place with the quickly available and necessary slide or "woggle."

 

Out of his rich and pictured experience Daniel Carter Beard, the National Scout Commissioner, speaks with his usual aptness when he declares that "the Neckerchief is first and last a necessity."

 

THE PROPERLY FOLDED NECKERCHIEF

The following standard for folding the Neckerchief has been adopted upon advice from plainsmen, cowboys, out of doors men, and experienced Scouts throughout the country.

 

 

Folding the Neckerchief

First, fold the Neckerchief once to get the triangle. According to the size of the boy, turn the long edge over about three inches smoothly, once or twice, or even three times, to insure the Neckerchief's lying smoothly at the back and hanging correctly in front. Place around the neck over the collar of the shirt, insert the slide, or woggle, up over the ends to the point where the knot would be if tied as a four in hand necktie. Then tic the two loose ends in an overhand knot, as if it were one piece of material. This lower knot is a constant reminder to do your Daily Good Turn.

 

THE SLIDES FOR THE NECKERCHIEF

 

The Woggle

Always wear the slide, or woggle, with the Scout Neckerchief. The advantages of the slide are that in hot weather and on the hike the Neckerchief can be loosened around the throat, while in a cold wind or snowstorm it can be drawn up closer to serve as a muffler. When necessary to use the Neckerchief in emergencies, the slide can be drawn down instantly, permitting the Neckerchief to be whipped off over the head. When the slide is not used, a knot must be tied, and as it is seldom tied twice alike or at the same position at the throat, a very untidy appearance results. The slide is an immense convenience and adds distinctly to the appearance of the Neckerchief.

 

The Neckerchief Slides are made in this pleasing variety of colors: white, khaki, gold, royal blue, brown, black, gray, green, orange, purple, yellow, red, and a combination of red, white and blue. Each Troop should adopt a color to be worn by all its members with the Neckerchief of harmonizing color which has been adopted for the Troop, District or Council.

 

THE COLORS OF THE NECKERCHIEF

 

Neckerchiefs Growing Like Flowers

in an Old Fashioned Garden

The Scout Neckerchief grows like the flowers in the old-fashioned garden, "Out at Old Aunt Mary's. "

 

The single color Neckerchiefs grow in these shades: plum; red; maroon; orange; lemon; tea green; moss green; dark green; navy blue; royal blue; violet; khaki; dark brown; gray; black; sky blue; gold.

 

The double color Neckerchiefs grow in these shades: red, gold border; gold, navy border; green, red border; gray, green border; sky blue, maroon border; navy blue, gold border; red, black border; gold, red border; orange, black border; purple, orange border; royal blue, sky blue border; black, red border , lemon, navy blue border and maroon, gray border.

 

THE USES OF THE NECKERCHIEF

"Be Prepared" tells the Scout never to be without his Neckerchief and therefore to be ready for any emergency. There are fifty six practical uses among many others for the Necessary Neckerchief.

 

 

Some Uses of the Neckerchief

SQUARE NECKERCHIEF USES

GENERAL

Rope for tying animals

Mosquito covering for head

Sweat-band for games

Identification for teams in games

Tie for three-legged races

Swatters for running the gauntlet

Red kerchief on projecting poles in transit

Padding for carrying load on head

Repairing harness

Substitute for hat or cap.

SCOUTING

Signal flag by attaching to stick (Morse)

Signal flag (no sticks) (Semaphore)

Life line (Troop)

Rope ladder (Troop)

Bag (hobo style)

Lashing for canvas or bundles

Caulking for boat

Sail for boat

Covering for food

Belt emergency

Knot tying practice

Substitute for clothing

Trunks for bathing

Apron for kitchen police

Troop or District identification

Good Turn reminder

Guard rope (Troop)

Emergency sock

Distress signal

Smoke signals

Flare

Torn strips, trail marker

Bathing cap to denote classes of swimmers; red, beginners; blue, fair swimmers; white, life savers.

TRIANGULAR NECKERCHIEF USES

Pressure on armpit artery

Arm sling

Collar bone fracture

Ankle sprain dressing

Fractured hip

Kerchief stretcher

Padding for splints (several)

Chest carry

Tump line carry (pack strap)

Hand bandages

Head bandages

Foot bandages

Support for sprained wrist

Tourniquet uses

Trench bandages

Compress

Smoke mask for fires or gas

Fireman's drag-- free wrists

Tied hands carry

Tied hands across over turned canoe

Tying good ankle as splint to broken one

Guide rope to find way out of smoky room (Troop)

Sun shelter for injured people (one for each person)

 

This is not mine...but Rick Seymore says it best reguarding the Scout Neckerchief. Don't put it aside use it...it is part of Scouting no matter what.

Sales and estimating manager for a landscape company the first forty-five hours each week. The next twenty-five hours (most evenings) I am Nursery specialist, stocker, sweeper, loader, and anything else for Lowes. I hold a degree in ornamental Horticulture out of Chicago and have served as a greenhouse grower & operations manager for the past twenty-eight years. Still find time to be Scoutmaster each week, go camping once a month with the boys, serve as Camp-O-Ree chairman for the district, keep the grass mowed at home, the pool clean and the flowers planted.

Great answers form everyone. Sports is important, Scouting is important. It is a valuable lesson to learn on how to balance several things that you would really like to do. Sports is seasonal at least for each session. Scouting is year-round. They both involve learning how to be a team player. It is possible to do both with a little planning. The boy will learn how to do is best. Sometimes failing form overcommitment even doing your best is worth doing. It is better to find this out as a youth when no real harm is likely to happen than to have this happen as an adult where it could effect your family and loved ones. Where there is a chance for real problems that could effect you for some time.

 

Scouting teaches us values. In a good way having a conflict such as sprots vs. scouting, it brings me back to focus to the boy...keeping them moving in the movement. Thanks for a great thread.

Sound familiar? My ASM and I were discussing the new scout patrol in our troop or the lack of. We have 6 new cross overs and only 2 to 3 have show up at the last 2-troop meetings since coming aboard. I realize it may be a little pre-mature to worry about but its worth a heads up to watch. The boys and the parents have all been informed that the troop meets every week and that there is a program for these new scouts that will help them become part of the troop and that they will be the ones running the troop with the other scouts. The new scouts are all playing baseball and wont be available until June.

 

This is news to me (SM) I agree that all things are workable, but having a patrol with only 2 to 3 scouts does not work. My ASM says its only baseball and BSA is not like the militarytheyll be back in June and they will just have to make up what they missed. My feelings on this are if they are out until June a month and a half this puts the new patrol in a position to where it cannot function as a patrol and the boys will have to be put into the other two patrols.

 

How have other troops worked with this problem ?I feel that the Scout needs to decide as do the parentsBSA or baseballor some where in-between. I know as a coach I would want to know thiseither you play or you dont. If you miss practice you cant play we dont do this in BSA but if the scouts are not there why put the others in a hardshipblend them in, form a new patrol when the others come back.???

 

Do the one about the back packer. New Scout...

He's going pack backing..

Pulls out a Dutch over for his stove

Pulls out out or is carring 5 gal. cooler for water.

Everthing he has is on the heavy side. And in conclusion the Scoutmaster says to the young new scout...I suppose you've got the kitchen sink....yes sir...and he throws down a kitchen sink.

I wanted to toss this out...Last Fall my DE approched me with the current "Progam Chairman" for the district about assuming his role as "Program Chairman"

 

This involves many things from promoting summer camp to arranging district camporees. We were in compleat agreement. He would pass to me his information from the past and I would be the new "Program Chairman" I would plan the fall camporee...organize and impliment...it went great.

 

To my suprise this week the new leadership list came out and I have already been replaced by another scouter. He is currently serving as a Tiger Leader with his pack.

 

I approched the DE about this via e-mail...and got blown off. Her message was you are on a sub-committee for camping. You may work on a committee for camporees as a member at large. If your presence is needed at a district meeting for a report we will let you know.

 

This is news to both me and the former "Program Chairman" who is woundering who will do the job. Since we both had partnered in sharing information for the change.

 

When something like this goes on it makes one not want to volunteer. I've been in scouting a long time. Woodbadge, Scoutmaster, Cub Master. To me this type of behavior is tactless ineptitude.

 

Option...lick my wounds and quietly go away...or challange this?

Go to e-bay...they've got em. I got one that was printed in the 70's... I think I would rather have one printed in the 60's. I know it needs updating, but it is really usefull. You should be able to get them for around $3 bucks + shiping.

 

Eagle Foot

Happy Holidays and a Merry Christmas to all at Scouter.Com. We are getting rain here in the south. Thank you to all who post and the service you do in scouting.

 

Eagle Foot

Scoutmaster

 

I may stand corrected...The Charting Organization has the option to inforce diplay of these options of dress. If scouts are part of a church they are part of it's youth program. Scoumasters can express their approval or disapproval and can op a recommemdation. Only the COR can bring it to final as decided by the CO. Maybe a troop guide book that has the approval of the troop committee and the Charting organization will help. My personal feelings are tatoos may happen...not much you can do otherwise. If extreem then scout may have a problem. Piercings there should be restrictions. This is just my thoughts. Just what are we going to stand by in BSA? Our children that go to government schools can't even use the word CHRISTMAS now...Calif. ruling in local school this month. I just don't think piercings were ment to be included display while in the Boy Scout Uniform.