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  • #31
    I imagine that before long units will be issuing pink epaulettes to indicate their gay friendly policies?

    Comment


    • #32
      I asked because we have a very deserving scout in our troop. He needs to be recognized, but he would feel uncomfortable wearing a kerchief that is different from everyone else (too noticeable) I thought the epaulette would be more discrete, yet I know he would be proud to wear them.


      If you want to recognize the Scout, consider a different necker slide. I've done some handmade ones I've given to Scouts thru the years for quiet recognition.

      The Scout knows why it was given, as do I. If others ask, it's his choice on how he wants to handle it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Get with the times, SP. ;-)

        Pink is for breast cancer, and it's already been done. Rainbow is for gays, and that has already been done too. There's this little knot and a patch you can get:

        http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/layer02/store.html

        Founded by the Eagle Scout booted out for marching the gay pride parade in his uniform.

        I would wear one, but I'm pretty sure I would be removed from BSA or at least every position I have in our council and as the COR. I wish I could trust my fellow scouters to understand the concept of supporting the organization overall without agreeing with something we do, and the value of public debate and disagreement. But I do not trust them.

        Comment


        • #34
          A couple of clarifications, etc. here after reading through this thread:

          1) BSA24, the by-laws and the BSA's Rules and Regulations apply to everyone. Could you imagine if adult volunteers were trading old rank badges or their square knots (an action specifically prohibited by the Rules and Regulations)? Even if they weren't directly governed by them, a Chartered Organization Representative is automatically a member of the Council, and as the COR is head of the unit, the unit is now bound to wear the uniform properly.

          2) Red loops were formally retired and these are no longer referenced in the BSA's Insignia Guide. Olive is now the official traditional Scout program color. There is some confusion, though, as red unit numerals are still acceptable on the tan uniform. All troops need to be switching to olive.

          3) I have heard of National granting permission to local councils to create their own special loops, provided that it was a one-off and to commemorate something extremely significant to the council. I have no idea about the permanency of these loops, but I know that there are councils that receive special approval from National to generate them.

          Comment


          • #35
            Every old uniform is still a "proper" uniform since National maintains their copyright on every old uniform. You can go to a meeting in a 1930's uniform and still be just as much in uniform. Thus the saying, "Once in uniform, always in uniform." Since the rules don't prohibit wearing red shoulder loops, and since they were previously part of a "correct" uniform, someone who once had them on their uniform may continue to wear them. Any new Boy Scouts or Scouters should wear the green ones, though.

            By the way, red shoulder loops are still referenced on the national website at: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx although I have no idea if the new insignia guide mentions them or not: http://www.scoutstuff.org/pamp-gde-2-awds-insignia.html Buy a book and tell us, please.

            Comment


            • #36
              "Pink is for breast cancer, and it's already been done. Rainbow is for gays, and that has already been done too. There's this little knot and a patch you can get: http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/layer02/store.html "

              Regardless of a person's political cause or viewpoint, an unofficial knot that can simply be purchased is not in good form to be worn on the uniform. Knots should be official and represent awards earned or honors bestowed by others.

              Comment


              • #37
                Bart,

                I actually did buy a new book, because my Troop is in dire need of correction (that's a separate issue), so I'm sharing it with the PLC and they can run uniform inspections, which I will sit in on and serve as "arbitrator" with the book in hand.

                On page 14, it references Shoulder Loops. It specifies only the olive. It doesn't mention about red not being allowed anymore, so that's my fault there (was running off of someone else).

                Comment


                • #38
                  JD,

                  Gotta remember, the Insignia Guide only covers THE CURRENT (emphasis) uniform policies, not previous ones. So if you got a scout in the ODL shirt, he can wear red.

                  AND as a matter of fact, he can wear red loops and numbers with the new shirts too. From August 2008- April 2009 (ok the info came out in May 2008, but the uniforms were not available until August ) the information published by national DID say that the ODL and Centennial uniforms were interchangeable. So a scout could wear the new socks with the old shorts, new shirt with old pants, old insignia on a new shirt, etc.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Some years back I called the loops epaulets and a good friend in the forum put me right! (Hi Bob.)
                    I personally think these loops are a big waste of time and do nothing but cause problems.

                    Sorry BSA24 But your wrong!

                    When I joined the Area Committee, I was asked to wear a uniform with the yellow (Gold.) Loops. These silly things are listed as a "Restricted item".
                    Talk about a "Red rag to a bull" - Yellow loops seemed to make me a target for any and everyone who had or ever had a beef with the BSA.

                    I'd be happy if we all wore the same uniform with no silly loops or extra beads for WB.
                    But, I don't see it ever happening.
                    Ea.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      When I present sessions on uniforming, I always have this thought: BSA is less interested in uniforming -- uniformity of dress -- than in where you buy what you wear.

                      If BSA was interested in looking the same, we would not have several different versions of shirts/shorts/trousers that look different from 100 feet away in decent light. Instead, we would have a uniform, which we do not.

                      (Not even to get into the historic problem of variation in dye lots and "Once good, always good.")

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Loops = upselling.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Interesting converstaion...I especially liked the point about no way to 'punish'

                          Don't Scouts have to complete a Scoutmaster Reivew and SM Conference in order to complete a rank? I know I always did.

                          I remember our SM refusing to sign off on one because the boy obviously wasnt conforming to the standards of Scouting, and while he was 'present,' he wasn't really participating. (he was 3rd Boy in family slated to make Eagle...perhaps he just felt he didn't need to work as hard) SM explained the issue to the boy and his father, and how he felt there could be some improvement. The boy complied, and 6 months later....the boy was signed off.

                          To me, the purpose of the Scout Uniform, is to be UNIFORM! It shows an ability to follow rules and conform to a group. As Scouting Leaders...we should be striving to ensure we're meeting the intent of the District and National offices. We should also help 'mentor' our Scouts on what is/is-not acceptable. The scouts themselves will also do a splendid job of peer-pressure for conformity.

                          Please don't misundersand me.. I'm honestly not a uniform nazi or anything...but it really does bother me when Scouts refuse to even closely follow the rules. (patches in totally wrong spots, shirt not buttoned or tucked in, (or overly small) uniform looks overly unkept/dirty/wringled)

                          Just some of my thoughts. I think I kinda stepped away from the original topic..

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Interesting converstaion...I especially liked the point about no way to 'punish'

                            Don't Scouts have to complete a Scoutmaster Reivew and SM Conference in order to complete a rank? I know I always did.

                            I remember our SM refusing to sign off on one because the boy obviously wasnt conforming to the standards of Scouting, and while he was 'present,' he wasn't really participating. (he was 3rd Boy in family slated to make Eagle...perhaps he just felt he didn't need to work as hard) SM explained the issue to the boy and his father, and how he felt there could be some improvement. The boy complied, and 6 months later....the boy was signed off.

                            To me, the purpose of the Scout Uniform, is to be UNIFORM! It shows an ability to follow rules and conform to a group. As Scouting Leaders...we should be striving to ensure we're meeting the intent of the District and National offices. We should also help 'mentor' our Scouts on what is/is-not acceptable. The scouts themselves will also do a splendid job of peer-pressure for conformity.

                            Please don't misundersand me.. I'm honestly not a uniform nazi or anything...but it really does bother me when Scouts refuse to even closely follow the rules. (patches in totally wrong spots, shirt not buttoned or tucked in, (or overly small) uniform looks overly unkept/dirty/wringled)

                            Just some of my thoughts. I think I kinda stepped away from the original topic..

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Interesting converstaion...I especially liked the point about no way to 'punish'

                              Don't Scouts have to complete a Scoutmaster Reivew and SM Conference in order to complete a rank? I know I always did.

                              I remember our SM refusing to sign off on one because the boy obviously wasnt conforming to the standards of Scouting, and while he was 'present,' he wasn't really participating. (he was 3rd Boy in family slated to make Eagle...perhaps he just felt he didn't need to work as hard) SM explained the issue to the boy and his father, and how he felt there could be some improvement. The boy complied, and 6 months later....the boy was signed off.

                              To me, the purpose of the Scout Uniform, is to be UNIFORM! It shows an ability to follow rules and conform to a group. As Scouting Leaders...we should be striving to ensure we're meeting the intent of the District and National offices. We should also help 'mentor' our Scouts on what is/is-not acceptable. The scouts themselves will also do a splendid job of peer-pressure for conformity.

                              Please don't misundersand me.. I'm honestly not a uniform nazi or anything...but it really does bother me when Scouts refuse to even closely follow the rules. (patches in totally wrong spots, shirt not buttoned or tucked in, (or overly small) uniform looks overly unkept/dirty/wringled)

                              Just some of my thoughts. I think I kinda stepped away from the original topic..

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Interesting converstaion...I especially liked the point about no way to 'punish'

                                Don't Scouts have to complete a Scoutmaster Reivew and SM Conference in order to complete a rank? I know I always did.

                                I remember our SM refusing to sign off on one because the boy obviously wasnt conforming to the standards of Scouting, and while he was 'present,' he wasn't really participating. (he was 3rd Boy in family slated to make Eagle...perhaps he just felt he didn't need to work as hard) SM explained the issue to the boy and his father, and how he felt there could be some improvement. The boy complied, and 6 months later....the boy was signed off.

                                To me, the purpose of the Scout Uniform, is to be UNIFORM! It shows an ability to follow rules and conform to a group. As Scouting Leaders...we should be striving to ensure we're meeting the intent of the District and National offices. We should also help 'mentor' our Scouts on what is/is-not acceptable. The scouts themselves will also do a splendid job of peer-pressure for conformity.

                                Please don't misundersand me.. I'm honestly not a uniform nazi or anything...but it really does bother me when Scouts refuse to even closely follow the rules. (patches in totally wrong spots, shirt not buttoned or tucked in, (or overly small) uniform looks overly unkept/dirty/wringled)

                                Just some of my thoughts. I think I kinda stepped away from the original topic..

                                Comment

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