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Eligible to wear Veteran Unit Bar?

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  • Eligible to wear Veteran Unit Bar?


    I've got a technical uniform question. My DE says we can wear a 50 yr patch. The scout shop staff didn't want to sell me a patch saying it is tied to the number of years with a charted organization (CO). So I'm throwing out this question to the board...

    Our Pack's unit number '405' has been used since the 1950s. Since 1973, we've been located at a local elementary school. Four years ago, we changed chartered organizations to a local church but we still meet mostly at the school and now sometimes at the church for big events like Blue Gold, Pinewood derby, etc. If we count all the years that '405' has been used in our Council, it is over 50 years. If we count the group that has meet at our school, it is 36. If we count the time since we've been with our new CO it is 4.

    Which Veteran Bar are we allowed to wear by the rules?

    Kind regards,
    Cubby's Cubmaster

  • #2
    THIS IS A FIRST: a scout shop doesn't want to sell you something .

    Ok question is this HOW many months or years is listed on you charter? It doesn't matter if you change COs, heck my old troop did that 3 times in 4 years, but we had been continuosly recharted for 25 years and got the 25 year vet bar when they made them.


    From http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/awards/adults/unitawards.aspx

    Veteran Unit Emblem
    This emblem is a gold embroidered bar worn by boys and adult leaders of packs that have been chartered 50 years or longer. It is worn directly below the council patch, above and touching the pack numeral.

    And from the Insignia Control Guide


    Veteran unit bars, cloth, Cub Scout and Cub Scout leader, left sleeve, position 2a; 25 years, No.00133; 30 years, No.50006; 35 years, No.50007; 40 years, No.50008; 45 years, No.50009; 50 years, No.00105; 55 years, No.00194; 60 years, No.00195; 65 years, No.00196; 70 years, No.00197; 75 years, No.00107; 80 years, No.00198; 85 years, No.00138; 90 years, No.50010; 95 years, No. 50011; 100 years, No. 50012.

    Unit number with veteran bar, cloth. Unit number with veteran bar embroidered above the numerals. Special order. Two-digit unit number, No.10412; 3-digit, 10413; 4-digit, 10414.

    No where do I see anything CO affilaiation with veteran status.

    This really surpises me since when I worked in the scout shop, we usually knew more about program than the DEs.
    (This message has been edited by eagle92)

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd go with Eagle92.

      Its important what your charter says in terms of continuous existance as a chartered unit. That is your determination of what (if any) veteran unit bar you can wear.

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe that the certification comes from the Registration Service. Check with your council Registrar, she will be the authority in your council.

        Comment


        • #5
          Your unit's months of tenure is right on the 1st page of your Charter Renewal Report that's generated at re-charter time. If you still have your report, check it out...the "Months Completed Tenure" is on the left under all the signatures on the 1st page. Alternately, if your Council prints out the Unit Roster for you, it's there as well on the upper right of the first page. As has been suggested, a quick call to the Council registrar should also get you the info.

          That's the number to use and should be brought into the Scout shop as proof, if necessary.

          Comment


          • #6
            One thing about charters, PLEASE MAKE SURE THE MONTHS ARE CORRECT. I was at an ECOH a few months back, one of the troops I started as a DE, and I saw their charter hangin on the wall. Their charter had the wrong start date, exactly 1 year later. Liek I said I know when the troop was staretd as I hand delivered the paperwork to the council office.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's my understanding that if a unit charter lapses, or if there is a gap for any reason, the clock starts over. Many units went into "hibernation" over the years (such as during WWII).

              Comment


              • #8
                Don't quote me in this, as I don't remember details, but I believe that IF the unit is willing to pay the back charter fees and membership dues, then the can get tenure back. Again don't quote me on this, ask a current pro.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the info. One item to clarify. Does the number of years chartered have to be continuous?

                  Regards,
                  Cubby

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes, it has to be continuous. Our pack was started 65 years ago, but because the charter lapsed one year, our recharter form says 55 years (or whatever that is in months), so we wear the 55 year bar. When our charter lapses next year, if anyone restarts the pack, they will start over at one. Not that our scout shop cares, they would sell us 200 year bars if they had them in stock.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Don't forget the Veteran Insignia for the unit flag.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've a question. I'm a UC for a troop with a charter date of May 1983. But tenure is only 329. That is a 27 month difference. Any ideas why this would be? The Registrar has no idea.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          jet, just guessing, but perhaps the unit charter was allowed to lapse somewhere along the line. I know in our council, there is a "grace period" following the charter expiration...after that, you're classified as a "dead unit".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The "dead" period is 3 months. Rationale is that things happen on both ends council and unit, that can cause a delay.

                            Don't know if it's national policy or a local one, but when a unit lapses here, that number is on hold for the community and does get used by a unit in another city. We had a Pack and troop die a few years back, and their number was "reserved" for my town. Now that the CO has restarted the units, and they gotr their number back.

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