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  • #16
    Shortridge - Of course the youth comes first. The adults are always there for the youth but just giving an example, Brotherhood weekend we might have 20 youth arrowman and 10 members going through their Brotherhood. We will have 30 adults there. 3 adults in the kitchen, 1 adult with the brotherhood weekend chief, 1 helping with the ceremonial team, and 1 helping with Nimats. We usually have the 4 or 5 that just want to drink coffee and converse but that leaves 20 adults for the weekend. Instead of 20 adults nagging the youth where can they help and overwhelming the brotherhood cheif, now through the committee the committee chair is directed (By the LEC and brotherhood chief) what tasks to do, review upcoming events and potential concerns to lift to the LEC, review "pet projects" on the LECs to-do list to see if they can help (an example coming to mind is a display case for our lodges headdress used in the first ceremony). The committee organizes the work and breaks the committee into groups to work on different issues. They don't work independently without LEC approval just like any other committee in the lodge... they just happen to be adults. I agree the youth always come first but if they don't call upon the adults to help or they use a select 6 or 7 adults, how else do you fulfill the needs of the other adult arrowmen looking to serve?

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    • #17
      After noticing how the thread of how to keep youth more interested in the OA went off the Active Topics page after being inactive for 24 hours, and then noticing this thread about keeping adults interested going into multiple pages, we should all be mindful of what our purpose is as advisers.

      Even when we're complaining about advisers not advising, it shows our primary concern is with adult things, not youth things.

      I don't have an answer, just an observation.

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      • #18
        Johnponz - I was being sarcastic. This idea is awful. I was trying to articulate a likely reason these folks would use to justify their idiotic idea.

        Amangi - Again, all the hypotheticals you raise can and should be handled and headed by a youth leader. Adults with nothing to do? The service vice-chief should have a standing list of camp projects he can toss them. Adults aren't handy types? The lodge secretary can direct them to process spare paperwork. Talented with arts and crafts? The ceremonies chairman can enlist them to teach a session on beadwork to his team. All problems solved by the empowerment of youth leaders, not setting up a parallel power structure of adults.

        If the lodge adviser doesn't appoint you as a formal adviser to a youth, you should still be advising by example - picking up a broom and sweeping the dining hall, adopting a trail to clear, gathering firewood for future campers, cleaning out the rain gutters on the summer staff lodge, mucking out some latrines, repairing a fence, patching the roof of the rifle range shelter, clearing a stopped-up sink at the swimming pool, taking inventory in the trading post, making a new knot board for the first-year camper program, drilling in screws for a replacement buddy board at the waterfront, nailing together some stools for Basketry frames, painting the outside of the nature lodge, routering new directional markers for camp signposts, digging a hole for posts for a new camp gate, taking measurements, bearings and readings on the trail for an updated camp map, offering professional advice on budgeting to the lodge treasurer ...

        All projects directed or guided by a youth.

        No one should go to a weekend not knowing what their job is, even if that job is general unskilled labor. I'm left wondering if this committee idea is coming about because these adults you speak of are district and council board members who can't function if they're not on a committee. The OA doesn't work that way. There is just as much honor and significance - more, even - associated with being a cheerfully grimy sweaty anonymous Arrowman as there is being a chief or a chairman.

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        • #19
          Shortridge-Sorry sometimes the sense of sarcasm is lost in the "virtual world."

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          • #20
            The one and only purpose of adults in the OA is to support a youth run program. This is now the main criteria for new adult membership. But let's face it - not every adult makes a good OA adviser. Someone who makes a great cubmaster may not make an easy transition from being the face of the program to taking a back to a youth member. Some adults just like being in charge. An "adult committee" would run contrary to most lodge's by-laws where youth must chair committees, but it also seems ill-advised to turn away skilled workers from performing projects in camp. In our lodge we do have many adults who do not have a direct role in advising youth, or who pass in and out of those roles. At Ordeal weekends these adults are often set to performing more skilled projects that involve members - or working in the kitchen (under the direction of our YOUTH Food Service Chairman). For instance, this past year we obtained an OA Service Grant to build a waterfront tower. Certainly the youth do not know how to design or build a structurally safe tower, but the project idea was theirs, as well as the conceptual design. Working with adult members who have construction experience, the youth maintained leadership of the project while being coached by adults. There were three or four adults members present and providing help on the day the tower went up, but there was one principal adult working with the boys to coach them in getting it done and navigating the political waters of performing this type of project in camp. Adults also perform other projects around camp that involve power tools or technical knowledge, however these are still all coordinated by the Service Committee Chairman and Taskmaster - both youth members.

            My advice - put these people to work, but in a way that maintains the youth's role as leader. Youth leadership is really what the OA is about.

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            • #21
              Again, well said, pilapeu539

              However, "The one and only purpose of adults in the OA is to support a youth run program. This is now the main criteria for new adult membership."

              Actually, this has been the main criteria for new adult membership for a very long time. Sadly, some adults don't get that.

              If you have a lodge adviser and group of adult advisers who understand it, they can serve as a great resource for the youth officers in fulfilling the purpose of the lodge. If you don't, then there will be problems. I've been fortunate that the lodges I've been involved with have had the right kind of adults as advisers.

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