SM Slowing Advancement

[Lynda J 10]

Don't be to fast to get boys to Eagle. If they earn Eagly at 13-14 they will earn their Palms by 15-16. They are then finished with the program but are to young to register as JASM or register as an adult. So where do they go? They are done and you will probably lost them. Kevin is just turning 12 and wants to earn Eagle by 16. That then gives him two years to do the Palms. I just think they need take things a little slower.

Had a Wolf leader that had her boys finished with Wolf in December. They couldn't move up into Bears and got bored. By the time we did our advancement to the next level all but 3 had dropped out. So don't work the program to fast.

[DugNevius 10]

Lynda and Semper are saying pretty much what i was thinking.

 

In my [limited 15 years] experience most 13-14 year old eagles fall into two catagories. Paper eagles and eagles from eagle mills. A lot of them had a father scoutmaster that arranged things to be signed and some came from troops that made it as easy as possible, in an almost socialistic fashion to get eagle. This is not always the case.

 

But the journey is the importance, not the destination. The longer the scout is on the journey and the more experiences he encounters, the better for it he will be.

 

DFor an analogy, Lets say you take three groups of scouts in NY and tell them their goal is to reach LA. One group you give tickets for an airplane. Another cars with full gas tanks. The third you give them only what they can carry and a map. The first group is in LA in a matter of hours. All they had to do was find their seat, watch the in flight movie and sip cokes. All of them are going to get to LA. The second group took a bit longer, they had to navagate the roads a bit and there was the potential for accidents but most will make it to LA. The third group had to walk, or hitch rides, or earn transportation, get food, get places to stay, deal with hangups, injuries and a million crossroads that led them elsewhere other then LA. Most of these dont make it to LA but some do. Of those of the three groups that make it, which have gained the most of their experience, learned new tricks, become more self reliant and resourceful? Well, i think thats an easy one.

 

Of all the kids i have worked with, through boyscouts, school or other programs, i didnt know any 13 year olds that were eagle worthy. I knew a lot that had the potential to be eagles, and some of those did in fact become eagles. Rushing scouts through the advancement program leaves little time for proper development and cuts down experience. In a boys life, the period between 13 and 17 is huge for development and not many boys are the same at 16 and a half as they were at 13 and a half.

[FScouter 24]

No one posting in this thread has advocated rushing boys to Eagle by 13 or 14. The question posed at the top of the thread was whether it is appropriate for a Scoutmaster to restrict advancement so that Eagle cannot be obtained until age 16.

 

"In my [limited 15 years] experience most 13-14 year old eagles fall into two catagories. Paper eagles and eagles from eagle mills."

 

The Scoutmaster would would be largely responsible for that outcome. Imposing artificial advancement restrictions on all boys in the troop will not fix an Eagle mill or paper Eagles.

 

"They are then finished with the program ... So where do they go? They are done and you will probably lost them."

 

That may be true if you believe that the only reason boys stay in a troop is for advancement. Why do some boys remain at one rank for years, participating in activities but not advancing? There must be something about Scouting they like, but it isn't advancement.

 

If an Eagle scout quits before aging out, the SM and the unit have not done enough to keep the program challenging enough to retain him. I don't believe advancement restrictions are going to keep boys in a dull program.

 

[ljnrsu 10]

Be thankful you are becoming SM. In my opinion your current SM doesn't have a "clue", Eagle or not, and is hurting the Unit and the boys.

 

Before I continue let me say something about my Boy Scout background. I made Eagle in 1971 at the age of 17. After college I became SM of my old Troop and sat on our Council's Eagle boards. Then 10 years ago when my oldest joined Boy Scouts I became involved again as ASM which I sill am.

 

About 5 years ago I was talking to a father of one of my soccer players and Boy Scouts came up.

He said that his son was going to drop out of Scouting because after 1 year he was still a Tenderfoot. I asked why,he said that they couldn't schedule a SM conference. Of course I invited them to visit our Troop. A week later they show up along with 2 other boys and their parents who also were being held back. The 3 boys decided to try us instead of dropping out. Today the 3 of them are still active as SPL,Instructor, and JASM,one should have his Eagle board next month. The other 2 are Eagles with palms.

 

Every boy will advance at their own pace, sometimes they will need prodding. But if you hold them back you WILL lose them.

[jr56 92]

There is no way the SM should be holding up advancement. The boys should be allowed to progress at whatever pace they desire. If they want service hours, they can plan a project and through their SPL get it approved by the SM. If the SM is doing his job properly, he should approve any service projects as long as they meet BSA regulations.

[busylady 10]

Weeding flower beds for 15 minutes at each meeting for a service project? How sad . . .

 

In our troop, the Scouts need help looking around to see how they can volunteer, not for gain such as movie points (our system for "rewarding" troop-oriented service, which I know doesn't count towards a service hours) or strictly for advancement's sake. Our troop policy is that you must participate in 6 hours of "service" (either troop or community) per year, regardless of rank.

 

Our committee and leaders get frustrated at the lack of imagination, so we've begun posting volunteer ideas on our BB--both the parents and the Scouts like it and never realized there were so many ways to participate in the community . . . Our lists come from a volunteering site on the Internet and specify the age range of the volunteer they're seeking so we can make sure the opportunities are appropriate. (Even newly-crossed-over Webelos can serve at a community food pantry or soup kitchen, with adult supervision, of course.)

 

How will these young people realize that their efforts make a difference, regardless of the "pay", unless they experience helping in the community? And, when they get to badges like Cit. in the Comm., esp. with the new volunteer requirement, what kind of experience will they have had so they can identify "good" volunteer projects?

 

I have fond memories of doing "service projects" and the folks I hung out with to do them. And, our Scouts are beginning to "get it"--last week they not only helped clear chairs after a town function but helped set up voting booths for the town elections the next day (and had a good time doing it). The town officials were there, too--what a great teaching opportunity!

 

Does the SM realize that service projects can also help identify careers? We have therapeutic riding stables around here that are starving for volunteers, and I can't think of a better way for a horse-savvy youngster to learn about physical therapy as a profession while helping a disabled person ride. Some of our Scouts just attended a disaster drill as "victims", which provided insight into careers as first responders.

 

Another thought about an SM slowing advancement: Doing so can only frustrate efforts Scouts put forward to set goals. And, how valuable is THAT skill?!?!

 

So, I say let them proceed through ranks at their pace. There's no doubt that MBs will slow them down once they've made 1st class. Let's be sure we're supporting them in their efforts to succeed in all aspects (that is, not neglecting home and school for the sake of advancement). But, let THEM dictate how fast they want to go.

 

We have a responsibility as leaders to help the next generation understand that their ability to serve is limited only by their imagination and their initiative--let's not stunt either one.

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Thanks for all the comments. Some posters got it right. I'm not interested in pumping out 13 and 14 year old Eagles. My concern was with keeping a boy who can advance from advancing due to a self decided age limit by the SM. My son could have made 1st Class 2 months earlier than he did if he would have taken 30 minutes to an hour to finish up 2 or 3 small requirements. That was his decision to put it off because he busied himself with other things. He can easily make Star by this July if he works at it and he will barely be 12 1/2. If he does do the work, I certainly don't expect him to have to wait until November because the SM has decided that no boy at his age should be a Star before then. If my son puts off doing the work, that is fine and it is his decision. My whole point is SM's not taking each individual scout into consideration when working thru the ranks and setting boundaries. Holding a boy back and not recognizing and awarding his efforts runs the risk of running him off.