Help!! What do I do with this?

[scoutdad]

Help!! Having read this forum for quit some time I hope you can give me some guidance.

 

We have a new scout (bridged in January) that mom has pushed hard to get first class by our June summer camp. To complete his second class swim requirements she arranged for our troop guide, who is a BSA lifeguard, to test her son and a few others a the local pool in early June. At the pool the guide had them do the second class swim test and the first class swimming requirements including 9c, which is now only part of the swimming merit badge. I had heard that none of the new scout had done very well but the one in question was particularly bad. At camp we are lined up to do swim test and new scouts mom tells the staff her son has passed the swim test before coming to camp ( our camp will allow this). The staff asks the SM and he says that is his understanding, so new scout gets blue without swimming. Next mom is telling the swimming merit badge councilors that her son has done all of the swimming parts i.e. inflating pants etc. The councilor buys that (time is short and a lot of scouts in class).

 

Heres the problem. Last night the troop guide, who is a friend of my oldest son, is over at my house and tells me the scout could not pass the swim test. He says he couldnt swim on his back, in fact the guide had to hold him up several times. I asked him why he passed him then. He said that at the next meeting the mom cornered him and badgered him into signing off. He thought the scout would fail the swim test at camp. This mother also asked him to sign off stuff for first class that she say he has done at home, but when the guide questions her son and he has not a clue, she gets in his face and tells him to just sign it.

 

What do we do? He has received his second and first class ranks already, but the swimming merit badge is due to be given at the next COH in one week. Having boys sign off on requirements is fairly new in our troop and its been a battle to get here and I dont want to loose it over what in my opinion is a case of an adult abusing the system. Thanks.

 

YIS

Scoutdad

 

[nldscout]

well, other than fixing your control problem, There is nothing you can do. One a Certified MB counselor signed card, he has earned the badge. This falls into the live and learn catagory.

 

You need to put in place rules about scouts signing off on advancement. If he is a BSA, he should have known better.

 

Second, someone needs to talk to MOM. What the heck is she doing scheduling activities? Where is the SM and COmmittee? Time to reign her in a bit. Sounds like a control problem, control her before it gets worse.

[Fat Old Guy]

Get a rope! :-)

 

This mom is the classic pushy parent that I've mentioned before. You see them in all aspects of youth activities. She isn't worried about the kid actually learning anything, she just wants the badges.

 

Now, he's First Class and she'll be hunting a leadership position so he can become Star by Christmas. Of course, any leadership position will probably be done behind the scenes by her. Life will come before the next Summer camp and the Eagle project idea will be presented soon after. Eagle by next Christmas and the kid will be done. Two years in Boy Scouts, he's an Eagle Scout and now has five more years for more resume building before college.

[Laurie]

Coming from a mom

 

Wow! What gall she has. It sounds like it's time to talk with the troop guide and encourage him that it is HIS job to know whether the boy has passed or not, and that if the mom has a problem with that to please speak to the SM or Committee Chair. He should not even have to speak to the mom, but it sounds like she is going to be where she shouldn't be no matter what. That does NOT mean that the troop leaders must sign off on requirements though.

 

This boy may have a SM conference soon too. Would this be a good time to ask him what he feels his accomplishments are? What areas he thinks he can improve in? No mom, just him and the SM, and see if you can get him to examine himself. Who knows where that may lead? Poor kid--it's not an enviable place he's in.

 

As for mom, it's time to talk to her too. The requirements are not signed by a parent giving the ok, but rather by the leaders--youth and adult. Maybe she is unaware of this, but she needs to hear it again. Think of this way: her son was passed on those swimming requirements, but he cannot swim. What happens when he goes on the water and his canoe tips? Not only is he endangered, but so are the others. After all, he is considered a swimmer, but he is not a swimmer. This was NOT in his best interests. Nor was it in mom's. Now, take it a step further. He goes white water rafting or to another camp or some type of water activity. He doesn't pass the swimming test. Won't he be rather embarrassed? After all, he is a swimmer according to his mom--but he isn't.

 

I have not been with Scouts long enough to know how to handle this, but I think it's time to set the record straight. Give backing to all who need it, letting them know they do not sign requirments per anyone else's say so, but that they do so as they learned--by the Scout demonstrating, explaining, etc. Let the youth leaders know that you will back them; this mom will go further. Let the Scout know and let the mom know that this is the way it works. If they don't like it, well, tough Seriously, if they don't, that is their problem. Passing a boy as a swimmer who is not a swimmer is not a light issue--at least not in my book.

 

Update us please.

[Bob White]

Talk to the mom. Explain the purpose and method of the advancement program. Counsel her on how you feel her enthusiam for her son's advancement could actually harm his continued interest in scouting.

 

Tell her she is not to talk to other scouts about her son's advancement,period. She is welcome to share any concerns with the Scoutmaster or the Troop Committee Advancement Chair, but not with another scout. Also explain, that for reasons of safety and proper administration, she is not to organize any events involving the patrols or troop without permission from the Committee Chair and the Scoutmaster.

 

The best way to end this problem is direct and honest communication with the mom.

 

Good Luck,

Bob White

[Scoutmaster Ron]

WOW

 

First I would have a very serious talk with the BSA lifeguard with passing him on requirements that he obviously couldnt complete also in addition he may have indirectly put his life at risk if he is that bad of a swimmer.

 

Second the Committee chair needs to have a talk with the Mom

 

3rd..Why is Mom at summer camp?

 

4th Have at talk with the camp director and explain that this boy's blue card was signed off without doing anything.

 

5th Have a chat with the boy it's not his fault his mom is pushy and ask again for the troop guide to work more with the boy, the damadge is done but you can help him become a better swimmer.

[OldGreyEagle]

I know we shouldnt pick at a single point, generally unrelated to the topic at hand, but of course, since I am writing this, you know I am gonna do it anyway.

 

So, that being said, Scoutmaster Ron is having Mom at summercamp an issue? Maybe it isnt and I am just one big over paranoid doofus, but I just had to ask.

[Fat Old Guy]

"3rd..Why is Mom at summer camp?"

 

We have many parents who go to summer camp as a form of vacation. Most of them stay out of the way, they go fishing or find someplace to help out like the shooting range or waterfront. A couple insist on following their kids around which usually embarassed the kid but we've found that other than tying the parent to their chair, we can't dissuade them from being a pest.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Lets move the talk about Mom and parents to the thread Parents at Summercamp in the Summercap section of the forum. Scoutdad has an issue I dont want to cloud with a secondary issue (yes, I admit I started the secondary issue)

[scoutdad]

Thanks to all of you for your input, I knew I could count on you. Fat Old Guy, you have it nailed. The boys wont elect him to a leadership post because of his mom, so she decided to have take bulging for a POR. When they joined she signed up as an ASM but she never finished the training (no surprise!). In May she was after me to set up the swimming tests but it is a very busy time of the year for me, and with summer camp coming up, usually all of the swimming requirements are done there. She asked the SM if she could do it, provided there were 2 adults and a lifeguard. He agreed and the Troop guide (BSA Lifeguard) and my oldest (SPL) put it together.

 

Finally, Bob White, you provided the most sensitive response (I knew you would). The scout is really a good kid and is genuinely excited about scouting. You are right that she is spoiling this for the boy with out realizing it. The simplest approach is to have a calm discussion with her. The SMs preference for conflict is avoidance. It would also seem that any water activities like canoeing should be on hold for this boy until he masters his swimming.

 

Thanks to all

 

YIS

Scoutdad

 

[silver-shark]

"The best way to end this problem is direct and honest communication with the mom."

 

That's exactly right Bob. Too many parents see advancement as the end all to the programs objectives. This mom is one of them. A reminder that Advancement is only ONE of the Eight Methods of Scouting is definitely in order.

 

Now that the advancement has been earned, there is only one way to make it right, and that is to get the boy swimming well. Who better than the boy that signed him off knowing better. This is a common problem when boys are signing off for their friends or other boys, but if they sign it, they should be held accountable for making sure the boy actually knows the material.

 

[Eagle74]

I'll second what BW penned above. As the ASM for first-year patrols I run into this same or similar scenarios with some regularity. Usually, once the parents - who are accustomed to the Cub Scout way of doing things - get over the hump on the transition to the Boy Scout methods, they back off. A direct, friendly, but firm explanation works almost all of the time.

 

One way that I have found helps this situation for my Troop Guides is to let them transfer the monkey to my back. I have instructed them that if a scout wishes to use an "alternate" method other than to "demonstrate", "do", "tell", etc. directly to the Guide, then it needs to be run by me first. Parents are made to understand that badgering or leaning on a Guide is not acceptable behavior; if there's a problem, I'm the point of contact. Many Scouts can legitimately use skills learned or demonstrated during other life experiences such as school activities, toward rank requirements. Most are OK with me asking who he did it for and how do I contact that person; or have that person send me a note saying that they have read the requirement and Johnny completed it. If that person understands the scout requirements and the Scout did them, great! A couple follow-up questions with the Scout such as briefly tell me how you did so-and-so and it's done.

 

It's easier if you can make some contacts at schools, clubs, etc. beforehand. Establish a contact person(s), explain the requirement(s), and keep an open line of communication. When a Scout (or Scout Mom or Dad) says, "Hey, Johnny did this at school," all I have to tell them is see Mr. XXX, he can provide the documentation I need -or- Ok, I'll simply give Mr. XXX a call to make sure the requirements were met as stated in the book.

 

For instance, some of our scouts can elect to have their swimming requirements completed at the local swim club with a note from the lifeguard to me that the requirements were completed. That's OK by me, but I personally have spoken with two of the lifeguards about what the specific requirements are. They know that if the scout doesn't pass the requirements as stated and intended, no note comes to me. The advantage for the boys is that if they don't pass, they have the opportunity to practice and retest at their convenience and however many times it takes to pass. I can't offer this kind of time commitment.

 

Other examples would be that our schools have the DARE program in all of the schools so the 2nd Class requirement 8 is pretty much automatic if they show me their DARE certificate. If they participate in a flag ceremony at school or church, just give me a note or the phone number of someone with a position of responsibility in that organization. For some parts of Music Merit Badge a note or call from the band director is all it takes. Again, I have made contact so that he knows what the requirements are - even gave him a copy of the requirements which he keeps in his office.

 

As for the "Johnny did this at home with me" approach, I explain to new Scout parents up front that part of the Scouting experience and growth process for their new Scout is being allowed to learn from/with his peers and more seasoned Scouts. I tell them that doing it at home with Mom or Dad tends to take away from the Scouting experience for both the new Scout and the seasoned Scout instructing him, who gains a sense of accomplishment and leadership by teaching the new Scout. Again, for some it's difficult to transition from the Cub Scout methods to the Boy Scout methods - adult run to boy run.

 

Sorry for the length of this post. "Around the campfire" this probably could have been relayed more briefly.

[Eamonn]

As I have said in the past I am not a great lover of rules.

Many of us have a hard enough time just living up to the rules of our church and the Scout Law.

However, I do think that it is important that we share "How Scouting Works", with all of our Scouts parents.

Silver-Shark, has it right when he states that the advancement plan is only one of the methods.

As for Mom; Give her a job in the troop that will take her mind off her son. Maybe the Uniform Bank, would be good.

Failing that does the troop next door have a need for a bossy person- Keep the kid.(Joke.)(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[acco40]

The solution: have the new scout teach swimming (by demonstrating) to the new scouts next year. Wait, he can't? By gosh, how did that happen?

 

By doing the above, it gets the message across to both junior and mom that the scout really needs to master a skill to get signed off.

[Twocubdad]

All the above are good suggestions for the long-term, but short term you still have a safety problem with this Scout. Although he can't be retested on the swimming requirements, who says he can't be retested on his swimming tag?

 

Plan a troop swimming event and require that all Scouts be retested. Make a game out of it. Say that the lifeguards need the practice doing swim tests, whatever. But if this kid can't really pass the swim test he shouldn't be in the deep water.

 

The mose incredulous part of the whole story is the aquatics director giving the boy a swimmer's tag without actually doing the test. I'm a former lifeguard and water safety instructor, but at camp this week, you better believe I had to swim every stroke of the water test before I was given a blue tag.