hops_scout 9 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 They are why some league are just what they are- completely horrible. Definitely a waste of time for most people. And most boys playing sports are going to be playing in school sports and/ or competitive leagues. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 The Boy Scouts of America instills values. Physically strong is a part of the Scout Oath and therefore part of our values, but it isn't defined by waist size. Should we kick out a scout with Cerebral Palzy for not being physically strong? I don't think so . . . because he is probably enduring more due to his condition than the guy who can bench press 300 pounds. Besides, if the BSA kicked out every overweight guy, it would be left to Roy williams to remain the chief, Eamonn to be the National Commissioner, and myself to clean the latrines. DS Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I can honestly say that at no time in my life have I ever been able to do one single, solitary chin-up. This includes high school when I played football, training and lifting weights year-round and in pretty good condition. Needless to say, I'd hate to see a hard and fast requirement of five chin-up for Tenderfoot, 10 for second-class, etc. I don't think a standard like that could be made fair to all boys, or if that kind of standard even reflects what we mean by "physically strong." On the other hand, I do think a requirement along the line of maintaining an on-going personal fitness program would be appropriate. For some boys that may mean walking for 20 minutes three times a week or it may mean training for the Iron Man. But in the long run, teaching the boys to maintain a life-long exercise program is more important than how many chin-ups they can do a age 14. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Twocubdad hit on precisely what I meant. At least what I intended to mean. Teaching a Scout to set a lifelong physical regimine is (in my opinion) an admirable value. Skills and being able to perform physical things like chin ups are good, please don't get me wrong. But without values, skills and physcial abilitys can be dangerous at worst, useless at best. DS Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 24, 2003 Author Share Posted July 24, 2003 " Needless to say, I'd hate to see a hard and fast requirement of five chin-up for Tenderfoot, 10 for second-class, etc. " There's currently a requirement for one chin up for Tenderfoot. You have to show improvement over a 30 day period and if you do zero on day one, then you need to do one on day 30. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 "There's currently a requirement for one chin up for Tenderfoot." No There isn't. The handbook lists a variety of activities and simply says to practice and show improvememnt. No minimium level of improvement is set and improvement can be measured in other ways besides repetition. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I see nothing wrong in the current requirements. For those of us on the "down side" of life, asking for physical fitness improvements with each passing year is a bit ludicrous. I don't see too many 80 year olds dominating professional sports (Golf is NOT a sport!). Wait, I changed my mind. A couple of physical fitness requirements I would like to see: 1) For Tiger - Webelos: DO NOT accept your mother's offer to drive you to school. WALK yourself. 2) For Tenderfoot - Eagle: Only allow yourself one hour of video games for each hour of strenuous activity that your participate in. 3) For Scouters: When your son or daughter asks you to play catch, tag, shoot hoops etc., you MAY NOT say no. We don't like to sweat when mowing the lawn so we buy a self propelled lawn mower. If that gets to tiring we buy a riding mower. However, we don't like the sun beating down on us when we mow the lawn so we buy a riding mower with a canopy. By wait, we start gaining weight so to get more exercise, we buy a treadmill. We start to look a little pale so we buy some time at the tanning salon. To top it all off, the cost of all of this forces our spouses to work. Only in America.(This message has been edited by acco40) Link to post Share on other sites
mk9750 11 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Acco40, WHAT? Golf isn't a sport? Now I am completely devoid of athletic activity. Thanks! (tongue planted mostly in cheek) Mark Link to post Share on other sites
molscouter 10 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I'm with TwoCubDad on this one. A strength requirement is not realistic for many kids this age. Remember, these are kids entering puberty, growth and strength do not always go hand-in-hand. Example, I just got back from Webelos resident camp. At this camp they have a very low level COPE course (essentially, climb around a three sided wall) that's maybe eight feet high. Last year, one boy scampered around the wall with no problem. This year he couldn't get to the first corner. He's a runner (competes very successfully in 5K runs, plays soccer, basketball), he is in shape. Oh, did I mention that he grew 6 inches and put on 15 pounds this year? His strength just hasn't caught up yet. A hard and fast rule just doesn't seem right at the ages we're talking about. On the other hand, they should be doing something. Link to post Share on other sites
Night Fox 10 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Greetings form a first time poster. Why reinvent the wheel when you can promote program that works? I am finding that if the outing is in scouting it truly lends for a more active lifestyle than without it. My son is one of the few guys in his troop that loves to backpack. He pulls in his buddies to hike and climb with him. I am fortunate because I can keep up with them. When the troop wanted to do climbing and the ropes course and caving, I began to help find ways to support them. I started off by taking training to support the troops interests and now I am on the council training staff for Rock Climb and Ropes. I find myself more fit and having a yearly physical so that I can keep attending the activities. The BSA Physical Fitness Award gives scouts and leaders a framework for promoting lifelong skills in the scouting framework. It stresses the seven components of fitness and uses BSA age appropriate and safety guidelines. I am not sure how much support each council gives to supporting the award but my son is taking the requirements his planning meeting to suggest it as a troop activity option. The information concerning the requirements is in the www.scouting .org website. It was also featured in scouting magazine last year. If we encourage the youth to make the best of the program it should help them and us be more physically strong. Thanks for "listening". I have been learning so much from you all. Link to post Share on other sites
mk9750 11 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Night Fox, No, thank you for joining us! Nice post. And I applaud you for actively working to provide the resources the boys need to do the program they want. It's easy for us sometimes to say "Come up with something you want to do". It's another to have an adult leader who makes the effort to get himself trained so that they can do it properly and safely. Way to go! I'm predicting that if you continue to post, many here will find it beneficial. Welcome! Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 24, 2003 Author Share Posted July 24, 2003 " No minimium level of improvement is set and improvement can be measured in other ways besides repetition. " There is no such thing as a fracional chin-up so if you did zero to start, the minimum to show improvement is one. Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 "I am finding that if the outing is in scouting it truly lends for a more active lifestyle than without it." If all the boys do is the Scouting outings, they are no better off than if they play basketball one day a week. Your son must do much more than the weekend hikes with Scouts to stay in shape for backpacking which is why he probably enjoys it more than anyone else. If you aren't in shape, you can't find any pleasure in hauling 30 lbs on your back. There are those kids (like yours) who are fit in spite of the tendencies of today's society. They are the ones that you see riding their bikes or running or playing hoops every afternoon. The sad thing is that they are in the minority. Ironically, I had my annual check-up today (I'm doing fine) but one topic of conversation was today's obese kids. Link to post Share on other sites
LauraT7 13 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 on a related topic - I am really dissapointed in my troop - looking for the 'easy' way - we went to two camps this summer. One out of council - a great camp, with an open merit-badge program (for the most part) and loads of opportunities & badges not offered by our council camps. It was a large camp - with about a mile and a half from our site to the waterfront - about 3/4 of a mile from our site to the main office/ trading post/ dining tent. Because of the distances, we took our bikes. The campsites are still very natural -and far enought apart to feel like you'r not there with 500 - 700 kids -they have improvements like latrines, fire scars and bulliten boards. Program was a little disorganized - because the counselors were truly running their program and they had a new director. It rained a little every day - but not bad after the first day. the second camp belongs to our council. it is very regimented - every badge has to be signed up for and it is obviously very adult run. there's a schedule for everything and hasn't changed in 15 yrs or more. the camp is small in size - with platform tent sites on top of 'suicide hill' a big hill and all the activity areas located in an area about as big as your average city park. they have a swimming pool for swimming - but their boating 'waterfront' is a man made, 12' deep, dammed up wading stream. If they can get three canoes across that 'lake' I'd be very surprized. the camp was manicured and trimmed like a formal garden. Can you tell I prefer the bigger, wilder camp? Well, the boys prefer the smaller one - they didn't have to walk as far, everything was done for them. I will admit that the food was MUCH better at our council's camp - but i just can't shake the feeling that the boys are being lazy. I'm admitedly overweight, 43 - and not in great shape - The only excercise i get is maybe walking the (overweight)dog around the block once a week. I couldn't take the hills on my bike - my knees hurt too much after the 2nd day - and the walking required was really tough for me - but not that bad. I really enjoyed the camp - it was beautiful, the lake was awesome, and there were TONS of things to do. yet most of the boys prefer that spoon fed, baby park. I just don't get it. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 More likely the boys just don't want to spend so much time walking back and forth when they could be doing an activity. If it takse 3-minutes at one camp to get to the swimm area, and 10-minutes at another, the boys aren't going to be thinking about the chance to hike for 7 more minutes. All they know is they have less time to swim. It's not lazy, they want more time doing the activities and less travel time. You can't really blame them for that. Sometimes you have to look at things through their eyes, after all it's their vacation too. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
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