First Class Scout.

[Eamonn 61]

Before posting /starting this thread, I had read several of the postings about Camporee and I'd read the interview that the Chief Scout Executive,Mazzuca, had given to the newspaper. The truth is I thought he'd said something which he hadn't.

 

I see the skills learned by a Scout on his path to becoming a Fist Class Scout as the key which should open the door of opportunities to take on bigger challenges and more exciting activities.

I, when I look around the District and Council I serve, don't see this happening.

Scouts end up doing the same old same old.

Most of this is due to the adults not wanting to leave their comfort zone and not trusting the Scouts.

Our OA Lodge has 4 weekends a year.

Districts offer 4 weekend Camporees.

Summer Camp takes up 2 more weekends.

Add in holidays, Scouting for food, First Aid Competitions, Mall Shows.

I'm left wondering when these Scouts get to use these skills that they work so hard learning?

Living where we do, the area has so very much that can be done without traveling that far and spending a lot of money.

Some Troops have gone so far as developing their own camps.

The program offered is all about developing the camp. Maybe in time Patrols will want to hold Patrol Camps there? But I'm guessing the Scouts that they have today will soon tire of spending time 2 miles from home doing much the same thing.

I do of course know that location isn't everything and true leaders with imagination seem to have a knack of bringing out the best in the kids that they serve.

In the interview Mazzuca, talks about us remaining relevant. (The question asked if we were in danger of becoming like the buggy whip?) I liked his answer a lot. I agree with him that our core values are a keeper, but we need to provide programs that the youth members see as being relevant.

If we are going to devote so much time and energy and the Scouts are going to work so hard learning and developing these skills? Surely we owe it to them to provide more opportunities for them to put them to use?

Eamonn.

[Knot Head 10]

When and where do the Scouts in the Troop you serve get to use these skills?

Eamonn.

 

We try to create situations where skills are needed. We lash together a troop gate every campout where we hang our troop banner and awards. This requires the scouts to know and use lashings. We hold a knot tying contest at each campout - including a blindfolded competition. Current troop record is 6 required knots in 54.56 seconds blindfolded. Also got many good ideas from Bob White in a thread.

 

* Have a scout set up a short orienteering course each campout. Let scouts run it for prizes;

* set markers near plants, have scouts identify them;

* Scout jeapoardy to test first aid skills, safe hiking rules, etc. at your campfire or meeting;

 

Basically try to think of games for campouts and meetings that test skills in a fun way.

 

EDIT - we use the old fashioned dining fly because they have to be put up together (forces teamwork) and they require proper use of the taut line hitch and ground anchors. Yes they are more of a pain than the pop up tents you see at tailgate parties, but they reinforce a skill.

 

Advice - there is nothing like making scouts (even young ones) backpack 1 mile or more to a campsite to teach them how to pack efficiently. They also have to learn how to use a water filter and ration water use. Let a guy make two trips to haul all his gear a mile or so he'll pack better next time. He may get his buddies to help him carry it once, after that peer pressure resolves packing issues.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

[Knot Head 10]

Howbout a Castaway Camporee? Think Mr. Hanks or Mr. Zemeckis would come

 

We did a "Man versus Wild" campout.

 

No tents but they did get to bring tarps to make a shelter with. They brought clothes for one day, sleeping bag, etc.

 

They had to complete an orienteering course to earn their food for all three meals. We thought about cashing the food and making them locate it with maps but wound up not doing that.

 

no mathces, but all cooking over open fires. they were allowed flint or magnesium bars. One patrol built a bow with shoelaces and started a frcition fire. Great pictures and huge bragging rights.

 

We provided the water filter, they brought their water bottles.

 

It was a pretty good campout.

[Eamonn 61]

As I posted leaders with strong imaginations can help bring out the best in the kids we serve.

One problem with these Great Camporees is that I wonder how much of the imagination is really coming from the Scouts?

While many of the activities help develop leadership skills, what real opportunity is there for true leadership?

 

To my mind I'd much sooner see a Patrol go camping as a Patrol at a Patrol camp than see Scouts participate in a Camporee.

Surely this is why so much time and effort is placed on the skills needed for First Class rank?

Eamonn.

[NeilLup 13]

" As I posted leaders with strong imaginations can help bring out the best in the kids we serve.

One problem with these Great Camporees is that I wonder how much of the imagination is really coming from the Scouts?

While many of the activities help develop leadership skills, what real opportunity is there for true leadership?"

 

This is a really interesting question, Eamonn.

 

I believe that much of the framework for a great Camporee comes from the imagination of the adults. And I have no trouble with that. I'll tell you why.

 

When I first became a Scoutmaster, I read the book on youth leadership and the Patrol Leader's Council. I read that the highlight of the year for the PLC was the annual planning conference. So we scheduled such a conference. I had a flipchart ready to go, a calendar and off we went.

 

I asked the SPL and PLC members "What would you like to do next year?"

 

Silence

 

"It's your Troop, we can consider anything that you want, what might that be?"

 

Silence

 

"Do you want to do some of the same things that we did last year?"

 

"Yeah, that sounds good. Let's do that."

 

 

It was a very, very unhappy experience. The responsibility and "fault" if you will was mine as SM. Creativity, imagination and initiative cannot occur in a vacuum unless one is a true super genius. One needs to have a background and experience to build on and use as a framework of creativity.

 

An extremely exciting camporee with activities well planned by adults can provide this framework and experience for the Scouts to then build on and use in their home units. If there are some older Scouts who have done camporees in the past and maybe have done Philmont or Jamborees, they can participate in and maybe lead part of the planning and activities. But I fear that if we rely only on the imagination that Scouts can provide for a camporee, those same Scouts will be disappointed.

 

One man's opinion based on some experience.

[Lisabob 13]

I think there's a middle ground here. One really well organized and creative camporee can be a great thing for boosting a troop and supporting skill development. But 4 of those a year is overkill. As mentioned it takes too much away from the troop's own program at that point and incidentally puts an awful lot of strain on the adults, because it is typically the same core group of folks who do these (at least that's what I've seen, maybe it is different elsewhere).

 

What Neil describes, I think go to the questions posed in the "Older Scouts" thread too, particularly this part: " Creativity, imagination and initiative cannot occur in a vacuum unless one is a true super genius. One needs to have a background and experience to build on and use as a framework of creativity."

 

The way a lot of troops seem to teach T-2-1 skills is "here's a skill, learn it so you get your sign off." or "learn it because it is required."

 

What I would really prefer is to see guys be taught skills right along side of, "and here are some really cool real-life things you can do, once you learn this skill." Maybe that would help them think more creatively about activities they are equipped to do.

[Stosh 3452]

Well, I do BSA heresy. I tell my boys that not only do they demonstrate their ability to do the requirement to their PL to have the requirement signed off, they are to be prepared to teach it in the very near future to some younger scout.

 

As part of the boys' recruiting process, last Monday we visited a Cub Webelos den meeting, brought parachute cord to cut up, demonstate and teach fusing, then teach the Webelos the square, tauntline, double-half, and bowline knots. Each boy had a Webelos whom they spent the night getting to know, and to teach some basic knot skills. I saw only one BSA handbook out from my weakest scout who was eventually assisted with his Webelos buddy by the SPL.

 

My boys had 2 days notification on the meeting so they didn't get much chance to practice, but they did just fine. All but 3 of the boys were February/March crossovers themselves.

 

Stosh

[Eamonn 61]

Think I might be having a senior moment?

Not sure if I have posted this before or not?

Back home in the UK. One PL was really into collecting fossils.

Somehow,someway he came up with a plan that his Patrol was going to travel to Devon for a week (About 200 miles from where we lived.)

The Patrol did a few weekend Patrol Camps as a kind of dry run. They traveled from London to Devon by train. Had a really great week.

I had contacted the local District Commissioner who did visit them twice during the week.

They did collect a good many fossils, ate more fish and chips than maybe was good for them (The hike to the Chip Shop was about 4 miles each way.). Came back and took off for our Troop Summer Camp a day after they arrived home.

 

I think most of us have suffered the "Deer in the Headlight" looks when we ask Scouts "What do you want to do?

I wonder if sometimes we get that look because they think that we are not going to buy into their ideas anyway?

 

I'm not against adults working and planning wonderful activities for the Scouts. Some of the best times I've had as an adult is working on planning Camporees and activities with other adult leaders. The Scouts did enjoy them and I hope that they seen the benefit that comes from planning.

I just think that the skills that Scouts learn and maybe teach to other Scouts are skills that are used and are relevant.

Back when I was a little fellow I took German for 4 years (Our German Master was from Scotland and I think spoke German with a Scottish accent!) I have never been to Germany and have never had the need to put my fine German into practice. From where I sit right now it seems that I wasted four years.

If we allow the stuff that the Scouts "Have" to learn to act only as hurdles or obstacles that get in their way on the goal of Eagle Scout, not as a vehicle that helps place Scouts in situations where they are allowed to make real ethical choices, we are really missing the boat.

Being able to teach a skill is fine and dandy. But if the only reason to learn how to set a map and a compass is to be able to teach it to someone else who in turn passes the skill on to the next person and no one ever really puts the skill to use; surely the Scouts and some adults will see this as just an irrelevant waste of their time which serves no real purpose.

Maybe the answer is not having a set list of skills and allowing units the choice from some sort of list of what skills they are going to put to use and will be more worth while to the Scouts that they serve?

Eamonn.