Leadership and the "Chain of Command"

[Stosh 3452]

Stosh wrote: "In our troop we make it clear that the PL's are the highest ranking officer in the troop...."

 

I'm not sure what that means. Do patrol leaders appoint the Scoutmaster?

 

>> In my troop they did. I talked with the CC/former SM who was having problems in his troop. He needed "new blood" to help out his boys. I talked with the parents, they wanted a change, I explained my philosophy of leadership. And then I talked with the boys to see what they wanted/needed. The phone call I received asking me to be the SM came from the boys.

 

Can they remove him if they don't like the job he's doing?

 

>> I can't see why not. If the SM isn't meeting their needs, maybe he/she ought to be moving on to someplace where he/she can do a more effective job.

 

Must the SM consult the PLs before appointing ASMs?

 

>> Sounds good to me. Why have ASM's come in and assist them in their PL duties if he/she won't be able to meet their needs/wants as to how they want their troop to be run.

 

What if, Stosh, instead of wanting to go to the high adventure camp, your older patrol wants to go to a video gaming camp for a week?

 

>> That authority cannot be given to the boys because of BSA policy doesn't even give it to the SM. Can't give something one doesn't have.

 

What if the camp is coed or open to adults or sells alcohol in the camp lounge?

 

>> See above.

 

Or what if you are a LDS troop and your CO requires the troop to be back in the ward for Sunday services.

 

>> Duty to God. No problem.

 

But your patrol really wants to go to an event which extends over a Sunday morning. Does your PL's authority supercede the policy of the CO?

 

>> If the PL's don't understand their obligations to God and Country, they are going to have problems with the Scout Spirit requirement.

 

Everyone operates within both the responsibilities and authority that comes with their position. As Scoutmaster, I have certain responsibilities and authority which is granted as part of the BSA program.

 

>> Yep and one can give that authority to the boys as they are able to accept it as a part of their leadership obligations.

 

I have the responsibility to ensure policies outlined in the Guide to Safe Scouting are met.

 

>> So do the PL's.

 

I have the authority to decide who in the troop may sign-off on advancement.

 

>> And I have authorized the PL's to do this. I trust them with this responsibility as part of their leadership. If they don't follow through and prove themselves to be trustworthy, then we have a problem with the Scout Spirit requirement.

 

I do not have the authority to add or delete requirements.

 

>> Can't give authority that one does not have.

 

Patrol leaders operate within a similar environment. A patrol leader may have the authority to sign-off on basic requirements, however he is not authorized to sign advancement reports or Eagle applications.

 

>> Can't give authority that one is not able to.

 

A patrol may be authorized to camp on their own, but the troop leadership may impose restrictions, such as requiring they camp as a BSA facility.

 

>> Every situation is different. It needs to be discussed with the PL to see what their goals are designed to accomplish and do one's best to meet those goals. Help the PL to accomplish their goals of leadership.

 

While you write of your PLs having both responsibility and authority, there is a third element -- accountability. Daddy always told me "everybody works for somebody. Even the President is answerable to the voters."

 

>> Yep, the best leaders are the best followers.

 

You can draw your organization chart however you want, but like it or not, ultimate authority flows from both BSA and your chartered organization through the adult leadership. The adults are charged with the ultimate responsibility to see that the program and policy are followed consistent with the BSA and our COs.

 

>> And until that leadership/authority is shared with the boys, the leadership authority stays with the adults and one has an adult-led program.

 

Youth leadership is part of the game of scouting. While we may allow our patrols to play the game very broadly or more narrowly, there are limits to the game. Occasionally we have to call "out of bounds."

 

>> In issues of safety or BSA policy requirements, yep. Holds true for SM, CC, and CO as well.

 

That said, it's a pretty sorry Scoutmaster who can't figure out how to keep the game going.

 

>> All of life is played as a game. Is the leadership we are to be teaching just a game or is it a game with a purpose to be used in real life. I'm thinking the full reference says "a game with a purpose", not just "a game".

 

A PL announces that his patrol has voted to spend a week this summer in Taihiti. "Great." says the Scoutmaster, "bring your travel plans to the PLC. Don't forget to include how your going to pay for it all." A quick look at airfares on the Internet nips that in the bud.

 

>> Maybe not, if the World Jamboree was being held in Tahiti. Again, one always assumes it can't or it shouldn't be done, but there may be a very valid reason for such a decision. Instead of just saying "Great" and then throw a wet blanket on the whole thing, maybe the SM should say, "how can the PLC, SM/ASM, and Committee help you with your plans." If it's a game, the SM needs to roll up his sleeves and join in.

 

If a group of my Scouts want to go to another summer camp, I tell them to go for it. Come back with a plan. But there are real-world constraints including a couple levels of adult sign-offs on the plan. Logistics, cost, schedule, adequate adult leadership, safety.... Just because you label your Patrol Leaders the highest ranking officers in the troop doesn't mean they aren't accountable.

 

>> And if the PL shows sufficient leadership to have a plan all worked out with the help of his patrol members, it shows terrific leadership, responsibility AND accountability, and for the SM to then say, "Nope, we've never done it that way before." Why then would the older boys who are spreading their wings in leadership just not pick up and go someplace else when their dreams, plans, and goals aren't trashed by some SM would doesn't know how to lead leaders.

 

>> I'm thinking that a vast majority of "older scouts" are frustrated and disillusioned by all the BSA talk about leadership and then sold a "bill of goods" in its place. Let the boys lead, and give them the authority to do real leadership, it's what we're supposed to be teaching them how to do?

 

Thanks for your questions, I don't always know if my views are being understood in the light of the printed word of the forum.

 

Stosh