Patrol Method Help

[diannasav 10]

I'm curious how some of you would approach this issue. You have SM and ASM that feel the troop needs to be completely boy run to the point they don't work along with the boys to plan activities for a campout or sit in on their PL meetings to help organize or teach. The oldest scout in our group is 16, our troop is only in their 4th year. He cares a great deal about the scouts, but the ASM is pretty headstrong and feel that the boys should plan it all and all they have to do is show up. Most of our scouts range in age from 11-13 they were not taught how to run a meeting in Web II... I have suggested Troop Leaders Training and getting more scouts into YLT, similar scout training has worked well in training the scouts in the Crew, but it's falling on deaf ears. The troop is an extension of our pack so we have all worked together for almot 10 years and there is some burn out going on and some frustrations from the same parents always being the ones to help on fundraisers, camping, etc. Some of this is starting to change some of the new parents are starting to step up but very slowly. The difference between pack and troop is pretty big considering they had a leader who did alot and communicated alot, she did an awesome job, now they have someone who is say now you have to do it all. There are campouts when they do nothing, they ask the kids what do you want to do orienteering or have a free day.. What do you think the average 11-12 yr. old is going to say. They ended up playing in the woods around the camp all day, they accomplished nothing, they don't practice the buddy system, and they had the oppotunity to work with a merit badge orienteering counselor. I don't want to offend the SM so I don't say much because he has already said he will leave if people start complaining.... There's no one ready to take over if he leave.

[Stosh 3452]

Patrol Method is not something that just appears out of the sky blue. It is something that is created. If the troop is young, it takes quite a bit of "adult intervention" to make this happen. No one can follow a goal if they don't know what it is.

 

This might also apply in a situation where the troop is going to relearn the PM because it hasn't been traditionally done in the troop.

 

First of all, the #1 assumption on the part of all adults is that they are going to be working themselves out of a job. Then clarify the goal of PM to the boys and begin the training process. For the SPL and PLC, it is learning how to TEACH. The PL and APL are then taught how to DO.

 

For me this is the key to the PM process. PL and APL are the doers of leadership, the PLC demonstrate leadership by supporting/teaching the patrol leadership and the adults demonstrate leadership by leading by example as they function in support/teaching of the PLC leadership.

 

The discussion on the forum consistantly brings up the subject of adults "helping" too much. I seldom dress down an adult in front of the boys. Instead I go to the PL/APL/SPL or whomever and say, "There's an adult taking away your leadership opportunity." and then leave it up to the boy to correct the problem.

 

Although it may not be obvious in the literature of the BSA, my PLC is serving the needs of the patrols. Each opening page of the handbooks makes a quick and often overlooked reference to servant leadership. This means they are supportive of those whom they serve. PL serves his patrol members. The SPL serves the patrol leadership, as does the troop POR positions. The adults serve the needs of the youth leadership development.

 

If the flow of authority starts at the adults and filters down to the boys in the patrols, then it is adult led. If the patrols are serviced by the youth and subsequently the adults, then it is boy led. The most important group that functions is the patrol. If they don't come first, then it is not the patrol method. If the PLC doesn't serve the patrols, then it is not the patrol method, if the programming, ideas and creativity doesn't originate in the patrols, it isn't the patrol method. If the PLC run the show, then it may be boy led but it is not the patrol method. The welfare of the patrol is the core to a sucessful program. That's the patrol method.

 

Stosh

[gwd-scouter 11]

 

diannasav,

 

Your post indicates you have a very new troop. I can relate. While ours has been around for a while, it was run by the adults for years. A couple of years ago I stepped into the SM role with the intent of turning our troop around to a boy-led, patrol method troop.

 

Sadly, we have also been a very small troop and really only have one patrol. Still, we use the patrol method and have slowly over the years turned the leadership over to the boys.

 

Your post doesn't really give much detail on what is going on with your troop. What is your position in the troop? Stating that the adult leadership wants to turn it all over to the boys and then waits for the boys to do something is a concern. The boys will not learn what it is they are supposed to do without training.

 

In a new troop that training comes from the Scoutmaster. He must train the youth leaders and then monitor and mentor those youth leaders as they train the younger Scouts.

 

Jblake make some interesting and valid points in his post about how the patrol method should work, but from reading your post your troop is not even close to what he proposes. Starting a new troop takes enormous amounts of time from the adult leaders in teaching and training the Scouts to become leaders of their troop. They can't just be told "plan what you want to do and then do it" without guidelines and structure. It actually takes a couple of years of mentoring from the adults (maybe more than a couple), before you get a group of boys that can effectively conduct a PLC and run their troop.

 

In the meantime, the adults must also be trained to learn the methods of Scouting and how to apply them to your Troop.

 

With all due respect to jblake, at your point in your troop's organization I would never suggest, "The discussion on the forum consistantly brings up the subject of adults "helping" too much. I seldom dress down an adult in front of the boys. Instead I go to the PL/APL/SPL or whomever and say, "There's an adult taking away your leadership opportunity." and then leave it up to the boy to correct the problem."

 

I don't know many teenaged boys that would feel comfortable with that kind of responsibility - not even if they feel full ownership of their troop. My personal feeling is that it is the SM responsibility to deal with the other adults.

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

"In a new troop that training comes from the Scoutmaster. He must train the youth leaders and then monitor and mentor those youth leaders as they train the younger Scouts."

 

With all due respect, I beg to disagree with your assessment of my comments. Since when is education and training not part of essential support? That is exactly what I proposed. The patrol does the work and is supported by the PLC and adult corps of leaders. I would find it rather ridiculous to think the SPL would be able to teach the PL/APL without having been trained by someone. In this case the SM's responsibility is to train the SPL. Is that not supporting the boys in their responsibilities? There is a line between training and doing on the part of the adults that many adults haven't quite grasped in many cases, i.e. all the examples being proposed by forum members.

 

"I don't know many teenaged boys that would feel comfortable with that kind of responsibility - not even if they feel full ownership of their troop. My personal feeling is that it is the SM responsibility to deal with the other adults."

 

I know many teenaged boys that feel comfortable with this kind of responsibility especially when they have full ownership of their patrols. If a boy-led member cannot request an adult not take away his responsibility to the boys, then that youth is not really leading. If they don't feel this way, they need to be encouraged and trained to do so. Otherwise every adult that interacts with the troop will automatically have the priviledge to interfere with the leadership of the group, even if they aren't registered members of the troop, i.e. parents, etc.

 

This past meeting our NBP was learning how to set up tents in preparation for the Camporee in the next couple of weeks. The APL (Tenderfoot) acquired keys to the scout trailer and went out with the QM to get a tent. He took his patrol with him so they would know where in the trailer the tents would be stored. They brought in the tent and began the process of setting it up. Two adults stepped in to "help" instruct the new boys. At this point, I quietly informed the TG that the adults were taking away the leadership opportunity of the APL to lead this session of learning. Within a few minutes the adults were no longer part of the process and the boys returned back to their learning session. When they were done, they returned the tent back to the trailer and returned the keys to the SM. I don't know what the TG said or did, but there were no ruffled feathers, no hard feelings, and the boys accomplished their task. Of course, having adult leaders who are all on the same page with having the boys lead every possible situation in the troop helps the boys with their interactions with adults. Who would have demonstrated true leadership if I had gone over and asked the adults to step back and let the boys do their session? This is part of the educational support necessary for a truly boy-led patrol. If the adults cannot provide a learning environment for the boys, then they are attempting to usurp the leadership of the boys rather than support them.

No boy is going to feel confident enough to step forward and address an adult as a peer if ultimately they know it is a losing proposition. If that's threatening to your corps of adults, you need different adults.

 

As far as the size of your troop is concerned, you have the best opportunity of all to develop this environment. For a patrol method troop, all you really need to start with is a patrol. You can add support structures to that later on. :^)

 

Stosh