Assistant Scoutmaster chest bumping another in anger

[Cambridgeskip 658]

What SeatlePioneer said essentially.

 

We've all had a bad day before. I once had an unecessary segreant major moment with some scouts who I apologised to later. But I have never laid a finger on anyone and find it unnacceptable for anyone else to do so.

 

I don't know what your management structures are exactly in BSA but I think that given it is not the first time this has happened the issue needs to be escalated above the current SM. And that means both the actions of the ASM you referred to and the fact that the current SM needs support and/or training to deal with it.

[Twocubdad 665]

I agree with what the others have posted thus far. I think one of the "rookie mistakes" you may have made was in dealing directly with your own son. In the situationa you described it would be difficult for the other Scouts or the ASM to see much more than a dad hovering over his son. That's not the reputation you want for yourself or especially you son. You may have very well been justified, but you understand the perception. THE FIRST THING we try to do is hand off issues with our own children to the other adult(s) with the group. Maybe that doesn't sound like such a great idea when the other adult is Hulk Hogan, but still....

 

It seems your underlying question which I don't think anyone has really addressed is whether or not you deal with this guy's behavior now or if the greater good is served by letting things ride for now until you can take over as CC. Frankly, I don't think anyone can make that call but you. Way too many variables, nuiances and local politics involved.

 

But the one thing I don't think you can do is sandbag the guy, at least not on this particular instance. If you wait to become CC then bring up the matter, it would appear to me to be vindictive. "HA! I'm in charge now and boy are you in for it." And I think it would be difficult for you, as CC, to deal with this guy at all without it coming across as payback for the hike incidence. You put yourself in the position of essentially giving the guy "one more chance" to bully someone. Where are you if the next time he gets in someone's face the other guy pushes back? Or if the victim is some 15 year old?

 

Consequently, I think you have to deal with it now. For one, I think it only fair that if you do become CC, the rest of the leaders know where you stand on this sort of behavior. As CC are you going to turn a blind eye to bullies -- adult or youth -- or are you going to do something about them? That the SM has totally weenied-out on the matter bothers me -- an ASM is primarily his responsibility, not the committee. (And that he thinks a solution would be to make this guy SM again is unconscionable -- makes me wonder about HIS fitness for the job.) Since you have already discussed it with the SM with no effect, you do need to take it up the line to the CC. If that goes nowhere, with no real COR or institutional head, I would be tempted to have a chat regarding the situation with your district professional, but that depends a lot on your relationship with him/her. It would depend on the Scout Executive, but I would think getting physical with another leader could result in a membership revocation from the council.

 

If you become CC and the stuff hits the fan with this guy, I think you will be well served to have plowed the ground before hand. At that point it should be clear that your actions as CC would be a continuation of your efforts to clean up this mess. You've been to the SM and he did nothing; you've been to the CC and he did nothing; so now you're manning-up, taking the responsibility and doing the heavy lifting the other guys would do.

[BSA24 10]

Whatever may have been the circumstances, everything went out the window when the ASM made contact with you. That was it.

 

That needs to be reported to the district executive and the chartering org rep. That leader has to be removed from his position immediately, with no excuses.

 

No matter what anyone says, no matter what anyone does, no scout leader is ever to ever make physical contact with anyone else except in a loving, helpful fashion or when their safety and health are at risk.

 

That has to trump all other concerns. Terminating this leader has to be made a priority.

 

All of the other stuff about troop procedures and everyone having a bad day is irrelevant. This is abusive behavior, and psychologically healthy people would never do this sort of thing no matter the pressure they were under. Particularly something as silly as a hike.(This message has been edited by BSA24)

[Lisabob 13]

Seattle, that's not an extraneous issue. I would not be part of a unit where adults express their frustration by physically pushing other adults around. And so yes, I would be explaining to the current unit leadership that either they assure me this will be dealt with, or my family will do its scouting elsewhere. I also happen to think that when a family is serious about leaving, they ought to do a courtesy of explaining why to the unit's owners and key leaders. If the problem can be corrected, then that's great for all concerned. If not, then at least the family has given a head's up to the unit's owners and leaders, in hope that the problem might be handled in the future.

 

This isn't to say I think dennism's particular approach was 100% fantastic, but regardless, there's no excuse for this other fellow to be shoving people around. We might expect to deal with that sort of garbage occasionally from the boys; not from the adults.

[blw2 433]

I'll disagree with almost everyone here, and side with the OP.

 

A teaching moment presented itself. As a leader, he used it to teach a lesson to the troop. A good lesson at that. Period.

The other ASM decided to use the opportunity to teach another lesson. Period.

 

I'll concede that IF the other ASM or SM was nearby, it should perhaps arguably have been discussed first.

Also, granted that I don't know the tone of the situation, what words were said to lead up to it, etc.... but then none of you do either.(This message has been edited by blw2)