Basementdweller 608 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 BadenP suggests that a poor or low quality Eagle is not the fault of the Boy, Parents or Program.....But the Scoutmaster... So what traits make a Scoutmaster weak? What makes him strong? Remember this is supposed to be boy led right???? Link to post Share on other sites
Tampa Turtle 1011 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 This looks like a good thread. OK I will try to get started... When he talks boy-led but "fixes" things with adults to speed things up. Completely undercuts his credibility. (kinda the Covey bank of trust thing--you are making a withdrawal) When boys complain about a continuing bullying problem tells them there is no problem. (true) Not sharing in adversity. If it is storming, hot buggy campout, or is below freezing, goes to sleep in his SUV or drives up the road to a motel. (true story) Taking too much, talking at the boys. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny2862 11 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Lack of ability to carry out the Program. Being overloaded due to Lack of Support, either from Parents, Lack of Adult Resources - having to do to many tasks that should be handled by the Committee, Lack of ASM's, or of Trained ASM's who support the SM. Lack of understanding of the Program. And finally, some folks just shouldn't BE Scoutmasters. It may not be their FAULT, but some folks are in fact, just weak. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny2862 11 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Oh, Inability to Train. I know some great Outdoor guides who would be Outstanding Outfitters but who couldn't train a boy out of a paper bag... Link to post Share on other sites
Tampa Turtle 1011 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Lack of sense of humor. Poor people skills. Very poor outdoor skills. (If a guy is up to First Class and is willing to learn and has other great skill sets) Agree on poor program understanding-sometimes "cub scout mentality". A UN-SUPPORTIVE SPOUSE. (a real Achilles heel) Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Inability to enjoy 13 year old boy humor (can you stand another fart joke?) Tendency to yell and bluster at the boys on a routine basis (that'll get you tuned out real quick) Unwillingness to take boys' concerns & worries seriously (they'll just stop telling you things) Unwillingness to address "problem adults" who are causing trouble or just don't get the program (boys will lose respect for you) Sucking the fun out of stuff that actually isn't risky/bad/scary(risk managers are probably terrible scout leaders) Inability to shut up and let the boys try things their way. (hover-scoutmastering) Being too used to automatic deference in your adult world so that you become angry when the boys don't grant that to you. (you are on a trial run with the boys until you establish grounds for them to respect you. It ain't automatic here.) Not being able to earn the trust and respect of parents. (you're sunk, without that) Not surrounding yourself with capable supporters who understand your vision, both in the troop (build the committee & ASMs) and at home (does your family know why and agree with the amount of time you put into scouting?) Not knowing when or how to say no (over-commitment leads to burnout and resentment, and threads about "betrayal" on boards like this one) Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey H 25 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 A strong Scoutmaster is one who takes counsel from his peers and weighs the facts. He does not need to be an expert at everything "Scouting" to be effective but has a desire to grow and learn as an Adult Leader. He is an example of the Scout Oath and Law in his personal life - not perfect, but a desire to be consistent. He is a role model for the boys. He knows and understands his limitations and delegates those limitations to his peers. He understands his role as Scoutmaster as a teacher to the Scouts and he promotes and fosters the patrol method and boy-led concepts. Link to post Share on other sites
BadenP 93 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 A strong SM is one who surrounds himself with strong ASM's instead of running a one man show and taking all the burden on himself. He really needs to love and understand the scouting program and allow the boys to develop true leadership skills by letting them truly lead and in the process letting them find out for themselves that sometimes a leader fails or falls short but to never give up. A strong SM helps develop a good and supportive troop committee and maintains a good working relationship with them. A scoutmaster who can do these things can only be successful, will not get too stressed out, and will feel fully supported in his role. Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I really like Lisabob's list. Here are some of the things that I've directly witnessed that caused problems. Expecting automatic deference from the other adults. Letting everything fall apart because it's "boy-led". Being so overloaded at work so that you don't have enough time to put into the program. Not enough communication. Not able to assemble a cadre of supportive adults. Trying to do it all yourself. Spending so much time on all the details that you lose the big picture of getting the Scouts out there having fun. Being unpredictable. Changing plans without notice. Insisting that everyone follow all the rules exactly, but then make seemingly arbitrary exceptions for yourself. Asking people for recommendations, and ignoring all their advice. Lack of organization. Over-lecturing. Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1593 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 My top list is ... - Yelling - Threatening "One more time and you go home" more than once every few years - Lack of sense of humor - Lack of youthful attitude - Lack of adventurours attitude - Inability to de-escalate problems - Inability to coach the youth leaders - Skills - Not knowing. Not teaching. Not testing. - Burnout Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I am going to quote some of the things that weak SMs do not do. From Baden-Powell "See things from the boy's point of view." "Success in training the boy depends largely on the Scoutmaster's own personal example." A boy carries out suggestions more wholeheartedly when he understands their aim. Show me a poorly uniformed troop and I'll show you a poorly uniformed leader. Robert Baden-Powell Success in training the boy depends largely on the Scoutmaster's own personal example. "The more responsibility the Scoutmaster gives his patrol leaders, the more they will respond." Scoutmasters deal with the individual boy rather than with the mass. The object of the patrol method is not so much saving the Scoutmaster trouble as to give responsibility to the boy. The Scoutmaster teaches boys to play the game by doing so himself. When you want a thing done, Dont do it yourself is a good motto for Scoutmasters. "Scouting is not an abstruse or difficult science: rather it is a jolly game if you take it in the right light. In the same time it is educative, and (like Mercy) it is apt to benefit him that giveth as well as him that receives." The Scoutmaster guides the boy in the spirit of an older brother.... He has simply to be a boy-man, that is: (1) He must have the boy spirit in him: and must be able to place himself in the right plane with his boys as a first step. (2) He must realise the needs, outlooks and desires of the different ages of boy life. (3) He must deal with the individual boy rather than with the mass. (4) He then needs to promote a corporate spirit among his individuals to gain the best results. "If a man cannot make his point to keen boys in ten minutes, he ought to be shot !" Green Bar Bill "Help them(PLs) occasionally with constructive criticism. But do your coaching on the side lines always, never in front of the Patrols." "Train them, trust them, let them lead." My personal favorite. Never heard of it before tonite, but agree with it as it is almost identical to my "Al Bundy Approach to Being a SM" "An old experienced Scoutmaster said once: "The test of the Patrol Method is in the easy chair!" His audience looked nonplused, so he elaborated his statement: "Get an easy chair and place it in a corner of the Troop meeting room. If you can sink into it just after the opening ceremony and just sit throughout the meeting, without a worry for its success, without lifting a finger or moving a foot until time comes for the closing-well, then your Troop is run on the Patrol Method-your boy leaders are actually leading." Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Dang, Eagle92 beat me to it. I love that scouting stuff. Barry Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 "BadenP suggests that a poor or low quality Eagle is not the fault of the Boy, Parents or Program.....But the Scoutmaster..." If the premise is that the majority of the fault low quality Eagles lies with the SM then I disagree with that. Of the four parties mentioned the SM might just have the least influence over the quality of Eagle. Link to post Share on other sites
oldisnewagain1 42 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Lets see... Boy lead - check Good troop committee - check Youth trained - check Adults trained - check Adults ready to help out - check Troop is growing - check Journey to Excellance - gold A supportive council - Ack! Kryponite...growing weak... Link to post Share on other sites
Eaglemom2b 10 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 In my experience... 1)relying on his experience and training as a scout and refusing to go through adult leader training 2)focusing more on the fundraiser and not so much on scouting 3)playing favorites with the scouts 4)recruiting more adults for the troop than boys 5)telling the boys the troop is boy led and then overriding and vetoing everything the boys want to do so that the current program looks exactly the way it did fifteen years ago when the SM was a scout 6)vocalizing the weaknesses of the current group of boys and comparing them to the boys of 10-15 years ago 7)vocalizing (in front of parents and boys) discontent with the District and Council leadership Link to post Share on other sites
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