Adopting a ONE UNIT concept

[Basementdweller 608]

Thats the thing Q it isn't completely different......I just allows girls

[Kudu 186]

 

Yes, the "Group" is how Baden-Powell designed Scouting, so that is how it is structured in the rest of the world.

 

For all the dry, technical details, see:

 

PART VI. GROUP ORGANISATION

 

of Baden-Powell's PO&R: Rules on how to Play the Game of Scouting for Boys.

 

http://inquiry.net/traditional/por/index.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

posting in a hurry......I allow girls should have been.....IT which is refering to the Baden Powel service association.

[qwazse 4346]

BD, it's like backpacking. You and I know it's just glorified walking with the most important comforts hang at the ready from your shoulders. But for someone who's spent their life hopping in and out of a car to the nearest solid artifice that will provide food or shelter, it's downright radical.

 

For venturers to lead it, you may need to pitch it as something "adventurous".

[qwazse 4346]

[double post](This message has been edited by QwaZse)

[Basementdweller 608]

Q

 

I suppose.....

 

Shaking their world....

[Eamonn 61]

Back in England I spent most of my time in one Scout Group the 17th Fulham (Pioneers).

I had been a Wolf Cub in another Pack /Group however when things changed in the late 1960's early 1970's the adults in that group said that they weren't up for the change.

I was a Scout, a Venture Scout helped for a while with the Pack and then went on to become Scout Leader in the 17th. I was Scout Leader for almost 12 years and the guy before me was my Scout Leader served for over 20 years.

There had been one Group Scout Leader since world war two when he died in the mid 1970's the Cub Scout Leader who had been there just as long replaced him.

I left in 1984 and at that time he was still serving as GSL (Group Scout Leader.)

The Group always had a Pack and a Troop but the Venture Unit was a lot less stable.

 

While there was Commissioners, County Commissioners, District Commissioners and Assistant District Commissioners there really was no such thing as Commissioner Service.

The Group Scout Leader acted a lot of the time as a home grown Unit Commissioner.

Very much the go to guy when I had a problem.

I'm not sure about other Scout Groups? But our Group Committee did not have any active Scout parents on it.

Once a month the section leaders would attend the committee meetings and report how things were going membership, advancement and ask for anything that they needed.

I brought Pete our Troop QM and he gave a report on the state of the equipment and the vans.

Our Committee tended to know everyone or know someone who knew someone and were able to get things done.

They never really got involved with what the program was other than chastising me every now and then about the number of broken light bulbs and the state the Scouts left the bathrooms in.

They had a deep love for the Group like a devoted fan has for his team even though they didn't have a player on the field.

 

We did have a number of Scouts transfer from other Scout Groups and this was seen as a big no, no! Almost like they had left a family.

I spent almost 16 years with the 17th maybe if I hadn't moved across the pond I might still be there today.

The group was a very important part of my life and played a very big part in making me what I am today. I leave it to others to judge if that's a good or a bad thing.

Ea.

[Basementdweller 608]

I like it Eamon.....

 

I wonder the history of British boy scouting.......At what point did it become co ed....

 

 

[dkurtenbach 348]

In our area, Scouting in the LDS church works much like the Group concept: boys are in the troop through age 13; 14-15 year olds in Varsity Teams; 16-17 year olds in Venturing Crews. Automatic transition.

 

The Group concept could be done now by a strong Chartered Organization with a high interest in the Scouting program and in being thrifty with its resources -- financial, material, and human. You'd want one joint Committee (each Committee Member multiple-registered), one bank account and one Treasurer, joint fundraisers, one calendar, and one pool of equipment and supplies. You'd want a uniform and seamless transition, probably based on grade level. I could see four program levels -- Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturers -- operating independent programs but coordinating calendars and resources, under the watchful eye of an overall Program Chair responsible not only for logistics but for the quality and challenge of outings and activities.

 

The biggest problem would be holding it together over the long haul, because there would be constant whining that each program should have its own gear and its own money, and "that's not the way everyone else does it," and such. And the Committee would have to have people who _really_ know the different programs, understand the big picture, and can figure out "bridges" and work-arounds to deal with the differences.

[Kudu 186]

 

"I'm not sure about other Scout Groups? But our Group Committee did not have any active Scout parents on it."

 

That is because Baden-Powell's Patrol Leaders do all the things that BSA Troop Committees do to keep our Boy Scout program adult-led: No adult control of the bank account, No Scoutmaster Conferences, No Boards of Review, No "Scout Spirit" requirements (the ultimate adult wild card), No POR requirements, No six month popularity contests, No Guide to Safe Scouting, No indoor "Leadership Development" office manager skills...

 

...so what's left for a committee of indoor mommies and daddies to do?

 

"Functions

 

234. (ii) The S.M. will, however, delegate as far as possible,to the Court of Honour as in Rule 242 all internal matters of discipline and administration, including the expenditure of Troop funds, as defined in Rule 209. "

 

http://inquiry.net/traditional/por/groups.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

It takes everyone being selfless....

 

 

I know that isn't all that popular now a days.....

r

 

It is what I experience in our current multi unit organization....

[Oak Tree 15]

An active COR could run the existing BSA units this way now. But the norm is that the CM and SM are different people who don't spend a lot of time thinking about how to operate as one unit.

 

Our new AHG unit does operate as one unit, with one overall leader. I think it's a good thing that they've learned from the BSA and changed.

 

Our CO does operate our pack/troop as joint units. There are things that we could do to make it feel more like "one unit". The AHG groups all meet on the same night. Our troop and pack meet on different nights. They are referred to as separate units, while the AHG age divisions are just divisions within one larger, named, unit. It's a collection of a lot of little things.

 

Our pack and troop have a pretty smooth relationship. Even though we aren't one unit, we do have pretty good success with the Webelos transition, and we don't even really talk about it all that much like a crossroads - we treat it more just like a milestone. Most all of our Webelos cross over into the troop.

 

In summary - yes, I like the concept. You can do it that way now if you want. I think it would be good if the BSA moved more in that direction, but there are a lot of organizational, historical, and logistical obstacles to an all out change.

[Eamonn 61]

Think that I've posted this before.

No one seemed to know for sure when the 17th started.

There was a lot of talk about it being an "Early" London Troop.

But it seems along the way there was a few Troops that joined and closed and who was who? Was always in question.

The Troop /Group never wanted to be tied in any way to a church. It did over the years meet in various church halls.

During world war two the Cub Master held a very important job in a London hospital and wasn't allowed to serve in any of the armed forces. He started a news letter that he sent out to all the Scouts and Scout Leaders who were serving.

One member of the 17th was caught by the Japanese and died in a Japanese POW Camp.

After the war the members decided that they wanted a memorial for this fellow and they came up with the idea of building their own Scout HQ.

They set about raising the money.

William Thompson Memorial Hall had its official opening in 1967.

The building was a basic brick building on four city lots.

The people who raised the money had such a good time they didn't want to quit so they kept going plus they now had the hall that they could use.

They started running bingo every thursday night, dances once a month and the money just kept rolling in.

For a long time up until the fellow who was my Scout Leader the Troop wasn't that big. My S/L set the tone for spending some of the money and I followed his fine example.

For a while it did seem very much like it was "Them" and "Us" But once they understood that without a Scout Group everything else would be lost they softened their outlook a lot.

Ea.

[Moggie 12]

Basementdweller

 

1974 girls became eligible to join venture scouting, after that a slow progression of integration until 2007 when all groups (except some specifically closed groups) and sections became fully co-ed. This time scale was also discussed in this thread

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=343982#id_344381

 

Cheers

Gareth

[MomWhoCamps 14]

As Oak Tree said, AHG Troops are built this way. There is one troop that the girls can stay in from age 5 to age 18. Internally, the troop is divided into units by age: Pathfinders (Kindergarten), Tenderhearts (Grades 1-3), Explorers (Grades 4-6), Pioneers (Grades 7-8), and Patriots (Grades 9-12). The units are further broken down into Squads, which are roughly the equivalent of Cub Scout Dens or Boy Scout Patrols. This arrangement works really well for the girls, and has a good mix of Troop-wide and unit-specific activities. Advancement requirements for the older girls also require them to plan, arrange, and implement programing for the younger girls, which enhances opportunities for the older girls to show leadership, and the younger girls eat up the attention! It also gives the younger girls an opportunity to see the cool things that lie ahead, should they stay in the program. All told, I think it's a good system, and with two daughters who are a few years apart in age, it's nice to have one activity that they can do together.