When the rules become the joke

[Eamonn 61]

Reading all this stuff about what can and what can't be done, what is and what isn't acceptable has got me shaking my head in disbelieve.

At one time or another I now see that I've broken or gone against all these mighty fine regulations.

I was around some years back when the list of what was and what wasn't allowable at Camp Fires raised its ugly head.

Not long after the punch line and catch phrase for just about everything became:

"That's a gray area!"

You know if you want "That's a gray area can be used as a response for almost anything.

Of course a lot of the time it doesn't make any sense.

But you have to keep in mind that where it came from didn't make a lot of sense to start with.

Ea.

[Basementdweller 608]

Packs still do the upside down bobcat ceremony.....the webelos flaming necker ceremony. Packs own and shoot bb guns and archery.....the take canoe trips as packs.....heck one pack even went white water rafting....

 

Violate two deep leadership on a regular basis......

 

A little cake or pie in the face is small potatos....

 

The only thing I can do is follow what I believe is best for my scouts and evaluate the risk for myself.

 

A story.....we now own and shoot bb guns on our own.....It was a committee decision.. all the neighboring packs were doing it and theDE was aware. We were forced to do

[SeattlePioneer 144]

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Now you have me wishing I could set up a BB gun range at our June 2-3 Pack overnight!

 

Do you set up a formal range according to BSA standards? Is it operated according to BSA methods? Do you have adult leaders who have gone through the BSA training?

 

We have plenty of fun activities planned for our campout. The formality of following BSA rules would really discourage me from having that as an activity even if it were permitted.

 

I use the availability of BB guns and archery to help sell participation in Cub Scout Day Camp. That makes the ban on pack level BB gun shooting reasonably useful and palatable.

 

 

>

 

 

Are you paying a first ever compliment to your DE or should this be interpreted as lack of care and concern on his part?

 

Suppose someone is injured by BB gun shooting at your pack outing. Do you suppose your DE would remember being aware of giving you tacit approval for this activity?

[acco40 95]

Unfortunately, organizations have to create "rules" when the members of their organization can't seem to follow common sense.

 

Turning a Scout upside down when they earn their Bobcat is okay if the Scout is comparatively small (1st or 2nd grader) and the parent has enough upper body strength (most fathers, some mothers) and if the Scout is comfortable with it. Now a single mother may have her 5th grader join Cub Scouts and it would be very difficult for most moms to invert their son for this ceremony - physically.

 

So an organization, to prevent lawsuits (i.e. loss of revenue) protects itself by banning the practice altogether.

 

The true test of our character, as I see it, is what do we do as Scouters when an organization that we are a member has a program, that we've promised to deliver, has "rules" that we either think are not very wise or worse - plain out wrong? Do we follow them? Ignore them? Most have probably heard of "Cafeteria Catholics" - if think the vast majority of Scouters are "Cafeteria Scouters" - they just pick and choose from the full menu of the Scouting program what they like and ignore the rest.

 

I hope that this doesn't sound to self-righteous, but I try to follow the rules of the BSA to the letter when I'm acting as a Scouter. I've hunted, played laser tag, let go of a knife without the recipient saying "thank you" and heck, I even allow my wife to wash my dishes using only a double sink! However, I don't do those thinks when I'm involved in a Scouting activity. Although, if my wife decided to attend one of our camping trips, I may turn a blind eye to her washing my dishes in any manner she chooses.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[BadenP 93]

The reality is all those rules are there for ONE reason to protect the BSA's rear end. If a unit violates them then the lawsuits that follow fall on the CO and unit leaders only, since they were the ones in violation. The sad truth things like laser tag, river tubing, BB guns are all part of being a boy, the fact the BSA bans them does not change that fact. Our crew loves to go paintballing, river tubing, and laser tagging, never wearing their uniform shirts, and nothing has ever happened or will since they are all very responsible teens. Having rules just to have rules when they clearly do not have any common sense behind them is the problem when lawyers get involved and screw everything up.(Sorry Beav)(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[Basementdweller 608]

Nope not complimenting the DE..... He should have manned up and told them to stop immediately...

 

Our sister pack was losing Cubs to mega rich pack...rich pack was shooting bb's and arrows.....they started shooting and retention improved......Fact no idea....that is what they said.

 

 

I don't agree with our packs Decision to buy and shoot bb guns on our own.......It just isn't right...I am on record as being opposed..

 

 

We set up a legit range...just like the one in the cub shooting sports guide book.....We have a LEO who runs the range and was the biggest most vocal supporter. He has attended the council rangemaster training.

 

Run it by the book, beyond the fact we aren't supposed to be doing it......

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

As a rule which isn't always true??

 

The people who make the most noise about rules are the people who don't care and wouldn't keep a rule in the first place.

Many of us have both values and common sense.

We know that there is a line and are aware how close we get get near it without crossing it and causing pain, embarrassment or harm to anyone.

I don't need a "Guideline" To let me know that Cub Scouts singing rugby songs around the campfire isn't a good idea.

I know that there's a big difference between the adult allowing someone to push his face into a pie for a good cause and a food fight.

I can take and share a joke and not lose the respect of anyone.

Even if there are rules about hazing and I'm don't have them down chapter and verse? I have that little voice inside of me that tells me when something isn't nice or good.

Ea.

 

[shortridge 184]

No one forced you to do anything, Basement.

[packsaddle 753]

UHHHHHH, let's get back to those Rugby songs. I'm intrigued. I played rugby as part of a club a very long time ago and I'm wondering what Rugby songs are? I'm thinking I'd like to learn a few..maybe?? Maybe I just can't remember much of what happened after the games....probably a good thing.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Basement,

 

Running it by the book minimizes problems and risks. It actually sounds like a great activity, if it didn't violate the rules.

 

I suppose National doesn't trust packs to follow those rules the way your pack is doing.

[Basementdweller 608]

Ya know in three weeks it isn't my problem or risk any more......

[Eagle92 110]

I follow the rules, even the ones I don't agree with, like no pioneering projects over 5 feet, Cubs can't use red wagons, ad nauseum. BUT I am going to be VERY vocal about how stupid they are, how they do not make sense, and how some of these activities Scouts have been doing outside of scouting forever.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Basement,

 

What happens in three weeks?

[Basementdweller 608]

No longer CM..... New leaders have begun the program changes..

[SeattlePioneer 144]

There's a milestone.

 

 

So what's next? I understand there's a district chair position vacant....