Reminder on enforcing Youth Protection

[alancar 10]

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/121190219.html

[BS-87 30]

This is awful...

 

But it's also why we have such strict policies. When the units I commissioned were huffing and puffing about requiring YPT to even be a Committee Member, it was stories like this that served as the best reference as to why it needed to be done.

 

Every adult involved in scouting needs to be informed on how to recognize abuse, and what the procedure is for reporting suspicions or violations.

 

I'm thinking something we're going to see soon is a training course for boys as well required every two years on how to "Recognize, Resist, and Report" We have good resources available for the boys now, but nothing near a program that'd be required and enforceable like YPT for adults.

 

Something tells me that the boys being educated more on this subject would not only protect them if something did happen, but it would also probably discourage adults who are aware the boy has been educated in this subject.

 

While I don't like imposing even more rules, if it protects even one more boy it'd be worth a thousand inconvenienced Scoutmasters.

[Scoutfish 16]

Thing is, I don't think anybody could have enforced anything any more than they did.

 

I'll even bet this guy had taken YP himself.

 

Reading the link, it sounds like all incidents occurred away from any kind of scouting activity.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[acco40 95]

Educating the boys, while not wrong, is putting the responsibility in the wrong place. Mandating YPT to adults does not necessarily prevent these things but doesn't hurt either. The best thing I think we can communicate to the youth is to let them know they have the freedom to inform a trusted adult if anything goes on that they are uncomfortable with.

 

In a situation like this, it could easily happen that there were no outward signs of abuse to recognize.

 

Once, I went to a Scout's house to council him on a merit badge. Only after the first ten minutes or so did I realize that no one else was home except for me, the Scout and his dog. I continued but did tell him in friendly manner, that any subsequent meetings at his home would require either a sibling or preferably a parent to be home too.

 

On another occasion, a winter campout, I had a Scout - alone in his tent, request that I come into the tent to help him put his pants on! He couldn't snap/zip up his snow pants over his thermal underwear. First I asked another Scout to help - and they couldn't accomplish the task. So next, I asked him to go to the front of the tent (visible to all), I stood outside and making sure I had at least two SAs as "witnesses" I "corrected" the problem.

 

The things a Scoutmaster has to do! (This message has been edited by acco40)

[BS-87 30]

It doesn't matter if it happens at a scout event or not, and this is definitely an education problem.

 

The kids should know what suspicious behavior is. The parent's should know what suspicious behavior is. The leaders should know what suspicious behavior is.

 

The greatest enemy to any abuser is education. They're very conniving more often than not, and the Scoutmaster in this story took great care in carefully cultivating a few individual boys. The important part is that these boys were "consenting" or at least not resisting to what was going on because they didn't understand what was going on.

 

This is an obvious case of "grooming" which is a subject many Scout leaders, parents, and boys are not familiar with. Unfortunately, the only way to prevent this kind of abuse is teach everybody how to recognize it. I know for a fact YPT today does not address grooming, and it should.(This message has been edited by BS-87)

[Beavah 205]

The scout said Stibal fondled and performed oral sex on him at his family's cabin near Paynesville, Minn., and at a drive-in theater in Cottage Grove. That led to the first-degree convictions. Two second-degree counts involved sexual touching at Stibal's home and at an Eagan movie theater.

 

Yah, hmmmm....

 

So I'm not sure how da BSA's policies or enforcement of the same could have prevented these incidents, eh? Not a single one occurred within scouting. Two deep, no one-on-one and all the rest didn't accomplish a thing.

 

And that's the way these things normally go, eh? Because bad guys do the same sorts of things good guys do. They are friends with the family. They are trusted adults in the boy's life. They babysit for the parents when they have to go out, they employ the boy for work around the house to help him earn money for camp, they take the lad out for ice cream when he just needs someone to talk to. All those are good things for kids, especially so for boys who don't have a father (or mother) in their lives.

 

Then they cross the line. Sometimes alcohol, sometimes soft porn, sometimes hugs that are a bit too much. Most often they try to isolate the lad from other people to make the relationship dependent and exclusive. And if they succeed, they keep goin'.

 

Ain't an organizational policy in the world that's goin' to prevent that without taking some vitally important relationships with good people away from kids. All we can do is be alert and supervise, and give the boys the tools to resist. I'm with BS-87, the best parts of da BSA's YPT are the youth materials, not the policies, and they're the most under-utilized.

 

But by far the most important preventative is to have lots of other alert, caring adults in a boy's life who listen to him, are alert to his feelings, are there for him and care about him. That way no one can make a single relationship dependent and exclusive. I worry that in our fear, our policies sometimes make it easier, rather than harder, for a predator to gain access to kids, eh? Because all of the good, caring people spend so much energy keeping the boys at arms length or farther. If only a bad guy gives a kid a hug when he needs it, then I reckon that bad guy is goin' to look pretty good to the boy. And since those are the only hugs he's gettin', it's goin' to be a lot harder for him to tell what crosses the line.

 

Beavah

 

[BS-87 30]

"The scout said Stibal fondled and performed oral sex on him at his family's cabin near Paynesville, Minn., and at a drive-in theater in Cottage Grove. That led to the first-degree convictions. Two second-degree counts involved sexual touching at Stibal's home and at an Eagan movie theater."

 

No two-deep or rule against one-on-one could have prevented this. That is correct.

 

In cases like this, we need our boys to know what the rules are and what is inappropriate. Odds are these boys were aware what was going on when being... performed upon... was wrong. What they didn't realize at that time is that the abuser is using the friendship in order to abuse. From their perspective, they are willing to accept the abuse to receive the friendship. It's something we don't talk about with boys now. All we tell them is to not let folks touch their "bathing suit area".

 

It's a terrifying concept, but predators use programs like the Scouts to get close to children. Pedophiles are always going to use programs like the Scouts to get close to children. Our children need to know that "stranger danger" isn't as likely as an adult friend of theirs using their friendship to abuse them. We need to make sure we educate our kids as to what their relationship should be with their adult friends, and how to recognize when those boundaries are being crossed.

 

I remember in the old "Time to Tell" that there was an attempt to get this point across. But I also remember giggling with the other scouts instead of taking lines like "You're looking sweaty, you should take your shirt off" and "I'm not paying for ripped or torn clothes, so if you're going to wrestle you'd better take 'em off!" seriously.

 

I'm still wrestling with how to get this point across to boys without scaring them, while still getting them to take it seriously, and still trust their leaders. What are the zero tolerance boundaries boys can watch for in their relationships with adults?

[Scoutfish 16]

"It doesn't matter if it happens at a scout event or not, and this is definitely an education problem."

 

Oh, no doubt about it, it is a very horrific and serious problem. I was just saying that since it didn't happen at a scouting type event, then 5,000 policies by BSA couldn't have done any better than 3.

 

Education aimed at and geared towards the youth will be way more effective than just simply mandating that adults take it.

 

But I do agree all adults in any kind of leadership position should take it.

 

[Eamonn 61]

Reminder on enforcing Youth Protection ?

Of course my heart goes out to any and all youth who are harmed and hurt.

But posting a reminder?

I don't need anyone to remind me not to Rob A Bank.

The people who do molest and harm children are not going to follow the BSA rules, just because the BSA says too.

 

This guy has been found guilty and from what is in the paper it kinda looks like there is a good chance he will be found guilty of molesting other Scouts.

If we really want to try and prevent the kids in our care from being molested we need to teach them to:

Recognize, Resist and Report.

Many if not most of the YP protection guidelines that apply to adults have more to do with us (Adults) protecting ourselves from accusations that might be made against us more than anything else.

Eamonn.

[BrentAllen 10]

When a Scout discusses the three R's with me, the last question I ask is, "Who is more likely to molest you - someone you know or a stranger?" Every Scout has answered "a stranger." I then explain that most molesting cases involve a friend of the family or neighbor - someone they know. I tell them they don't need to be paranoid, but they need to be mentally awake.

[Oak Tree 15]

I do agree that education might help in this situation. Boy Scouts even has a decent video, as creepy as it is to watch it with a room full of fifth-graders.

 

My questions would be - why is Scouts the right place to educate people about child abuse? If it's so important, shouldn't the schools be doing it? I know that some of the education is for our own benefit as an organization, but which is more common - a teacher molesting a kid or a Scoutmaster doing it? I don't really know.

 

Sure, inconvenience to 1000 Scoutmasters is worth it to protect 1 boy from abuse. But what if it's 50,000 Scoutmasters? And 800,000 youth? You can just keeping adding requirements and some Scoutmasters and some kids are going to get turned off - I think you have to strike a balance.

 

And I'd be curious to know if there is evidence that the training actually helps (I agree it might, but I don't know). What I've seen of analyses of the D.A.R.E. program suggested it didn't work to keep kids away from drugs. Nor does sex education apparently reduce sex.

[BrentAllen 10]

Oak Tree,

Look at our mission statement, I believe that pretty well covers it. We teach Scouts how to take care of themselves. Personally, I see it as adding more value to our program.

[BS-87 30]

Oak Tree -

 

You're right that we can set all the mandates we want and get nowhere. That is why I ask the questions I do. We really need to understand what couple of things we can do to be most effective. YPT for all adults is a great plan, but if we're requiring folks to take it every two years, it had better have great updates and additions every year instead of sticking to sometimes archaic rules.

 

Some things I see missing from our efforts to prevent child abuse...

 

-In YPT, a section on how to recognize "grooming" behaviors. It's more obvious than you may think.

 

-YPT as it pertains to the internet. How should leaders be interacting with Scouts on the internet. (Here's the hint, you should follow all policies you would in the real world. If you're sending a scout an email, copy another leader so that you have two deep leadership.)

 

-Enforcement of Youth Protection training for the boys. There is the Bobcat Badge requirement and the Scout Badge requirement that cover this subject with the parents, but it is not well standardized and there is no telling how well it's enforced. What we need is a program that emphasizes "Recognize, Resist, and Report" and also what the specific boundaries with their adult leaders and friends. The boys need to be educated on the YPT guidelines and that they should be just as vigilant to watch for violations for themselves and for their friends to protect boys from abuse and adults from accusations.

 

-A simple way of accomplishing all of these objectives for everybody involved in the unit in a one hour meeting.

 

-Levels of YPT for Adults. We should be offering more advanced courses that are not required, but highly recommended. These advanced courses may even turn into a Trainer and Master Trainer type deal.

 

If we can't make our training effective, relevant, universal, and easy to do, YPT is useless.(This message has been edited by BS-87)

[perdidochas 658]

Our troop had a YPT expert come and talk to the Scouts a few months ago. Basically, an hour of the 3 R's. I think we will do this annually--not because it's required, but because it's the right thing to do.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I know as a youth the only thing I wanted was for the abuse to stop, oddly enough telling my parents about it was the last thing from my mind, I never thought about it.

 

When he moved on I was elated, that he moved on to my older brother bothered me, but not so much as I told anyone