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SMT224

Should I tell the new Scoutmaster?

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Well, I would call and provide them the facts, including the troop master record. i would let them know that he was expelled the from your troop and what for...... If council is banning him for life then he will never eagle.

 

 

Just curious what did he do???? PM me if you like.

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Part of the problem of telling the new Troop what happened is that you can't really tell them "the facts."

 

You can't really tell them who, what, where, and when.

 

 

 

Unless you saw the actual events, you can only give them your opinion of what other people said they saw and heard. That's hearsay.

 

What you write in Troopmaster is hearsay, except that the troop expelled the boy.

 

 

 

 

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Including - "BoR was held on XX/XX/XX. Scout was expelled from troop. Council was present and informed us they would consider revoking Scout's membership in BSA." - as a comment in TroopMaster is not hearsay. It is a factual statement.

 

Adding that comment to Troopmaster is the only thing that I would recommend doing.

 

Deciding what happens with this Scout is no longer your call. Your Troop kicked him out. Your council has decided that he is not to be permanently banned, and can remain a Scout.

 

Doing anything besides including a note in his TroopMaster file (which should have been done for Troop information purposes anyway) is over and beyond your business.

 

I would also suggest mailing (snail, or e) the file directly to the new SM.

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I honestly can't believe some of these responses.

 

First - yes, the troop has an obligation to share with the new troop the Scouts advancement records. The Boy Scout Handbook is not an official advancement record. Neither is TroopMaster necessarily but it is a great assist to a new troop.

 

Second, what is better for the boy - to remain in Scouting or not? If we honestly feel it is better for the boy to not be in Scouts, why on Earth are we posting on this web site?

 

Third, have the boys former Scoutmaster transfer the advancement records over to the new troop and simply state that if they want to discuss the Scout in any way feel free to call. That's it.

 

 

(This message has been edited by acco40)

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Hello Scout Nut,

 

I have no objection to the comment you suggested. You are simply recording the actions taken by the troop, and that ought to be fine.

 

My personal feeling is that it's to everyone's advantage to seal the records of the boy and not make them available to anyone unless there were a law enforcement or court request for them.

 

As I noted before, my bias would be to turn them over to the Institutional Head. If the council or someone else wants to butt heads with that person, they would be entitled to do so.

 

 

I'm not saying I'm "right" here, just suggesting this is a reasonable action to take which will protect the interests of the troop, chartered organization and volunteers.

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How will not allowing a Scout access to his advancement records "protect the interests of the troop, chartered organization and volunteers"?

 

Why would the police, or a court, have any need for a Scouts advancement records?

 

 

 

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Council is allowing boy to remain in scouting, higher authority rules.

 

Here's another thought too: Every situation has it's own chemistry. It could very well be that this boy's chemistry reacted with another boy'schemistry within your troop. Maybe the atmosphere wasn't quite right.

 

Not saying anybody is too blame, but it happens.

I used to have a freinds that, when ever we hung out, we go into trouble. But when we were apart, we were really good kids .

 

Chemistry is a funny thing.

 

SEcondly, something in his life may have changed wether naturally, or due to the therapist. Not your place or mine to question or jusge it. You had him removed from your troop. Council pursued further investigation and he's still in.

 

Pursueing it further would be revenge.

 

 

 

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The records are available should the CO receive a subpoena for them or a court or law enforcement officer make a demand for them.

 

Aside from that, the Scout unit would be deciding not to gossip about this incident. Talking to the Scoutmaster about it amounts to gossiping.

 

If there are no records, there isn't much need to talk about it.

 

Perhaps the Scout would have to repeat some advancement requirements. Tough.

 

The kid and family ought to be RELIEVED that the troop has decided to adopt a policy of not discussing the incident, whatever it was. The worst thing for the boy would be to have a bunch of people gossping about the boy and the incident for years to come.

 

And face it. It was not something investigated by the cops. The council staff investigated it and decided the boy should be free to continue in Scouting

 

It's not especially unusual for boys to do things that could get them kicked out of a troop. Getting CAUGHT at it is rare, and actually getting kicked out still more rare.

 

The kid is going to have to establish himself at a new troop, and probably endure some sceptical scrutiny by troop leaders for a while. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

 

 

There are lots of things a troop MIGHT do when confronted by this kind of situation. The course of action I've suggested seems reasonable to me and protects everyone's interests, if not perfectly.

 

That's the way it looks to me, anyway.

 

Others are welcome to their opinions and strategies. I will be glad to read them.

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Tagging a comment about the BOR on the electronic advancememt record is a good idea. Either make it direct & to the point, or with just enough informatio to possible pique the interest of the new troop to possibly call to ask questions.

 

I definitely agree with Scoutnut. Let the mother know that you are complying with her request, and that you will immediately mail the requestion documentation to the new unit, or will be delivering it personally. By no means hand it over to mom.

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acco40

 

 

Why can't you believe the responses?

 

 

We are guardians of our charges after all.

 

 

As a parent of a scout, I believe that the Troop leadership are guardians of my son when I am not present. They have his best interest in mind and will keep him safe from most obvious threats. I consider this young man a threat to my son. I would not want him in my sons troop.

 

With that said, this young man may or may not be a threat. we don't know what happened for council to get involved and maybe remove him from scouting for life. I am guessing it was pretty serious, this isn't a stolen knife or candy bar, this was life threatening or something sexual. all we know is that it was unscoutlike.

 

 

Run the law. For with holding the information from the new troop

 

Trustworthy.....ahhh no

Loyal......ahhh no again, not to scouting

helpful.... nope, not to the new SM. but possibly the scout

Friendly... Nope your sticking the new troop with a lemon

courteous... no, calling letting the SM know would be courteous, Not so much for the scout

kind........ We gotta ask kind to who, the perp or the scout he hurts in the future

obedient.... Yes your transferring the records

Cheerful.... Glad he is gone?????

Thrifty..... Irrelevant

Brave....... No tell the new SM the deal is tougher than hiding it.

Clean ...... Yes probably if you your thinking giving him a clean slate

Reverent.... God is forgiving, so possibly

 

 

Again with out knowing the exactly what happened, I don't know what I would do.

 

 

I will ask the group. So is risking your entire program and the damage a known bad scout and his family can cause is it worth the risk????? How many boys and familys are you willing to lose over him?

 

He had his chance and blew it, If I was SM I would not let him join my troop, especially knowing that council considered a lifetime ban, don't care what he did at that point. But that is just me, I have seen what destructive familys and scouts can do to a troop, pack or crew.

 

 

 

 

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I have confidence in my abilities as a Scout leader that the boys will be in a safe environment and as such, would welcome a new scout to the troop. I also have confidence in my abilities as a Scoutmaster that if I sat down one on one with a scout (within eyesight of others), I could determine if the scout really wanted to be in scouts, was being pushed by a parent or two or what.

 

I've had scouts do dangerous things with fire, knives, axes, sticks, stones - you name it. Sometimes intentional, most times not. It happens. Yes, our duty is to minimize the risks but that has to be balanced with allowing the boys to experience scouting.

 

I had a scout who wanted to join the troop who had a disability (Asperger's syndrome). I heard the same crap from parents I hear way to often - this kid would be a threat to my son, you're putting the other boys in danger if you allow this kid to join the troop, if you pair this kid with my kid at summer camp we are going to quit, etc. Frankly, the parents who are the most "concerned" with their kids safety are the ones who never show up on outings or volunteer for much. That is what my experience tells me. Truth be told, every other scout is a potential danger to your son!

 

 

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Fair enough......accidents happen. Scouts play with fire....knives and such.

 

I am wondering what he did. Never heard of council considering banning a kid for life.

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Thanks for all the good replies to my OP! This has been a very good discussion for me. I understand additional details would help, but it's better I not add any more. It's my hope this young man has matured and moved on.

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It's one thing that council has allowed the boy to remain eligible to register for a unit, but it's another for units to actually want to receive the boy.

 

Disclosure as to why the boy was removed and his situation is paramount to the security of the other boys. Should that disclosure not happen and something serious happen another boy and you knew it could come up, I'd hate to be your BSA hired lawyer trying to defend you!

 

Based on behavioral issues and the fact there's some kind of psychological burden, he may be eligible to lone scout in order to receive the program if he can't find a unit willing to work with his behavior.

 

 

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Hello jhankins,

 

 

Well, we really don't know what the incident was.

 

If some kind of disclosure is important, I would regard it the responsibility of the council and it's representatives to decide what to say.

 

As I've noted in earlier posts, I would say very little and regard the incident as closed.

 

In part that would be to protect the boy from having people gossiping about the incident, and that includes Scoutmasters. I would suppose that the boy and his parents are embarassed by the incident and would prefer to have it not brought up and discussed further.

 

But that's my bias. Others are certainly entitled to their opinion.

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