Presenting the Colors question

[acco40 95]

First, lets use the following terms: Flag Bearer, Color Guard and Color Guard Commander.

 

Flag Bearer - holds the flag, remains silent (does not say Pledge of Allegiance nor sing the National Anthem).

 

Color Guard - They "guard the honor" of the flag and make sure it does not touch the ground. They either stand behind the flag bearer or to the side. They stand silent at attention and do not repeat the Pledge nor sing the Anthem.

 

Color Guard Commander - The designated Scout who calls out the parts of the ceremony. The Commander should stand in front or to the side of the audience.

 

See: http://www.scouting.org/media/flag/ and BSA publication 33188A - Your Flag for more information.

[acco40 95]

Starting with a "signs up" either physical or verbal is somewhat counter productive. Start a meeting by presenting the colors. For an indoor ceremony, the Color Guard Commander should address the Troop/Pack and guests with a "command" loud enough for all to hear. Something on the order of, "Please stand for the presentation of the colors." Then have a slight pause for everyone get situated and then begin utilizing something like the following:

 

Attention!

Color Guard Advance

Color Guard Halt

Color Guard, Post the Colors

Scouts, Salute

Pledge of Allegiance (say Pledge)

Two (return to the "2nd" position - a leftover military term)

Color Guard Retreat (Yes, they do retreat sometimes).

Color Guard Dismissed

 

That gets everyones attention and along with a retiring of the Colors, gives everyone a specific start and end the meeting/event.

[Scoutfish 16]

 

 

I disagree!

 

I would say it is far more counter productive to have a Cub Scout try to give comands when he can not be heard by the color guard OR the audience ..because when he gives the command, his voice is no louder or different sounding that all the rest of the Cub Scouts.

 

Now, it seems that the assumption is that the entire pack shows up at exactly the start time of the pack meetings and therefore know to stare straight ahead and without noise.

 

But in THE REAL WORLD, scouts and parents show up a bit early, socialize, fellowship and just enjoy one another while waiting for the pack meeting to start.

 

We do not have a giant "Minutes left til start of pack meeting" countdown clock hanging up in the front of the sanctuary either.

 

So, like I originally said:

 

"Depending on the level of noise or wether people notice the scout holding up the Cub Scout sign."

 

Not : "This is what we always and only do.

 

Now, I also said:

 

"At that point, the caler will ask the audience to rise for colors, give all commands to the color guard, and lead the pack in reciting the Pledge of Allegience".

 

That is the start of our pack meeting!

 

Only ***IF*** the audience is TOO LOUD do we have myself or the ACM say signs up in a loud voice.

 

Most of the time, we do not have to.

 

But in the few occasions we do that, I'd rather say signs up than see a scout lose confidence while he is standing there being unintentionally ignored.

 

Do not forget, this is CUB SCOUTS I am talking about, not Boy Scouts at troop meetings, or adults at round tables.

 

Nope, talking about a child who may only be 6 years old and does not have the same level confidence that you or I have, and that sometimes, even in a completely quiet room, who's voice may not be heard 3 rows back because as he is only a CUB SCOUT...and is shy.

 

These boys are shy when talking to another adult while their parent is right beside them, much less staring down a room full of people!

 

I suppose I should just say shy boys are not allowed to take part in any color guard ceremonies huh?

 

I suppose that would not be counter productive to the program or boys?

 

Yeah, I'm being a bit sarcastic, but I can't help it since it seems that the ones who are not actually dealing with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th grade boys anymore ( like you forgot what it's like)are the ones who just took what I said was an "IF" scenario as a "We always do it" scenario.

 

Remember, these are not SPL's. PL's or any other older boys with a POR. These are young boys who are learning and preparing for the day when they are older, more experienced and not only brave and confident enough...but loud enough to bark out orders like drill instructors.

 

Acco, although I quoted one of your lines, this responce was not directed at or to only you or your post. It was directed to everybody who seems bent out of shape an adult speaks at an adult led, adult guided, adult helping kids event.

 

I constatnly see posts and replies of KIS-MIF, yet, simple is blasted and having a scout stand there with his sign up for - in his point of view - hours. Sure it may only be 3 or 4 minutes, but to a scout, it seems longer.

 

Now, reading post after post of troops adding requirements, DL's and committees changing rules at a whim, leaders who are concerned just for their kids only...gosh, whip me with chains and barbed wire for letting people know that a CUB scout is about to stand up in front of EVERYBODY and start our pack meeting in a very brave and solomn way.

[Scoutfish 16]

Just saying, don't be so uptight over a very minor and non-issue detail.

 

As BSA leaders, we are there for the boys. I am there for a Collor Guard Caller *IF* need be.

 

I have no remorse, no qualms nor do I apologize for it!

 

And the scouts seem to feel better about it!

[acco40 95]

Verbally stating signs up is akin to the old Mad magazine cartoon of a mother spanking her son repeatedly while chastising him by saying - "How many times have I told you to not hit your sister?"

 

If it is a Tiger Dens turn to perform a flag ceremony and the den leader deems that none of the boys is gregarious enough to get the pack's attention, have an adult state the opening "Please stand for the presentation of the colors" or some such attention grabber before letting the Tiger procede.

[Scoutfish 16]

"or some such attention grabber"

 

like an adult saying "signs up", then turning the show over to a Tiger who WANTS to give the command.

 

Here's the deal: The program isa not for me, not for you,or for any other parent. It is for the boys themselves.

 

So If I can do a little something, and I stress "little", to make it easier for him during his time in the spotlight...during a night that is for the boys to shine, and not for the adults to live through the boys.....then you now what I am going to do.

 

Now, I have no problem agreeing to disagree. To each his own.

 

But trying to impose a "situation ettiquette" ( for lack of a better word) when it only serves the adults........

 

well,then it's missing the whole point of Cub Scouts - which is for the boys.

 

We can't have a "be perfect right from the begining ( based on our adult standards) or be pushed aside" attitude.

We are there to teach, mentor,and enable them.

 

That includes a little trial and error. A little bit of room for those who are deemed "less than gregarious" than "WE" would like them to be. Time to develop both their confidence and voice.

 

That's why we are here! That's our job.

 

I am the Cub Master, also known as the ringmaster or Emcee of pack meeting.

 

 

Now,here is something from the new cubmasters guide that really stood out to me.

 

" A chance to help boys learn good

citizenship and help shape them into

men with strength of character who are

sensitive to the needs of others

The opportunity to make a difference in

the lives of boys as they grow strong in

mind and body

 

 

"shape them into men with strength of character who are

sensitive to the needs of others."

 

Or we could push them aside and be the color guard caller ourself?

 

Maybe,or maybe not, but there could be a time whan a young man or possibly even an adult says: " I remember when CunMaster Fisher called out and everybody heard me give the command to the color guard, I was proud of everybody hearing me give the commands!"

 

Just saying, those boys know and can tell when they are being brushed aside. It never feels good when you get pushed aside because you weren't good enough. But had a person..such as a CM or ACM just got everybody quiet, then they would hear that you were godd enough to call orders to the color guard.

 

 

Again, we will just have to agree to disagree and get on to the next arguement!

[Stosh 3452]

 

The color guard does not retreat. The command is POST. They then return to their original post back where they started from when the command PRESENT THE COLORS was given.

 

I have also found that the less commands the better. Too often verbosity takes over and every little movement is prefaced with a command.

 

Scouts and Leaders, Attention.

 

Present the colors.

 

Salute.

 

Follow me in the pledge.

 

Post.

 

Dismissed.

 

Everything else is fluff and confusion.

 

Stosh

[acco40 95]

Color Guard Retreat (Yes, they do retreat sometimes). - acco40

 

The color guard does not retreat. - jblake47

 

Did I anticipate this or what?

 

From Meritbadge.org

The Color Guard leader only needs to remember 21 words in this simple Presentation of the Colors.

Boy Scout flag ceremonies are always led by the boys.

You salute any time the US flag passes and until it is out of sight.

Ceremony

Color Guard leader brings room to order. (Raise the Scout sign if needed.)

The Color Guard leader walks to the front of the room and face audience.

Color Guard leader: "Will the Audience please rise?"

 

Give the audience time to rise.

Color Guard leader: "Color Guard, POST THE COLORS. SCOUT SALUTE."

 

Scouts carry the US & Pack flags walking double file.

Color Guard leader: "Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance."

 

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag

of the United States of America,

and to the Republic for which it stands:

one Nation under God, indivisible,

with Liberty and Justice for all."

Color Guard leader: "TWO."

 

Color Guard leader: "Please join us now in the Scout Law. Scout Sign. A Scout is"

 

Color Guard leader: "Please join us now in the Scout Oath. On my honor"

 

Color Guard leader: "TWO. Color guard, Retreat."

 

The color guard walks back out double-file to wait at the back of the room.

Color Guard leader: "Color guard, dismissed. Please be seated."

 

The Color Guard leader and color guard return to their seats.

 

From usscouts.org

Speaker orders: "Color guard retreat." Color guard is dismissed. Color guard is drummed back as they retreat.

 

From ushistory.org

Speaker orders: "Color guard retreat." Color guard is dismissed. Color guard is drummed back as they retreat.

(must have used the same source?)

 

There are retreat flag ceremonies, trumpets/bands sound retreat, but no color guard commander ever utters the work "retreat?"

 

[Stosh 3452]

"Return to post" sounds better than "Retreat". Just my personal preference.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

Stosh

[BDPT00 41]

It's interesting to observe the vigor that goes into a discussion regarding a flag ceremony. I'll offer a fly for the ointment. I don't consider it to be a "color guard." It's a "flag detail." I also think, therefor, that all of the commands offered above using the term "color guard" are incorrect, no matter the source.

Discuss.

BDPT00

[BDPT00 41]

My intent is not to cause a big argument. It's simply to point out that even those with lots of experience and confidence in forming their opinions may not agree with someone else with the same "credentials."

Respect, dignity, and honor can carry the day. Do a little research. Consider what works for you. Teach the boys how to do it. Explain why (Hey! Try EDGE). Get some practice. Then let 'em do it. I hope they make you proud.

BDPT00

 

[SSScout 1615]

If the "commands" make sense (and these are what are used in our area CSDC and Troop and Pack meetings: "Color guard advance, post the colors, Please join me in..., color guard reform, about face, color guard retire/dismissed..."), then where is the problem? The goal is a respectful placing of the national emblem at the front of the room. We, as Cub Scout or Boy Scout leaders are under no real obligation to follow any set military protocol. "It oughtta go like this..." is always a welcome comment but we are here as examples, not necessarily rule givers. I will remind us of all the "rules" about flag handling we have to debunk all the time. We are teaching respect, and the reasons for that respect. The necessary ritual need be adaptable to the situation and personnel involved. The boys will catch on.

 

It is a learning process for the boys. Do they need prompting? often. Do we smile and gently shake our heads at the gaffs? yes. Do they learn? absolutely. Are we proud when they do it well? heartily so. When they smurk and giggle uncomfortably when the flag staff bumps the ceiling, do we chastise them afterward? perhaps in private. Maybe it is then an opportunity for a CMMinute or SMMinute about history and striving for perfection and not acheiving it.

[gwd-scouter 11]

Scoutfish: I can understand what you originally posted. Gosh, folks, here he was trying to help answer the original poster's question and giving an idea about how things are done in his Pack, and poor Scoutfish is jumped on because he and his adults leaders feel the need to quiet the room by "shouting" Signs Up.

 

Back in the day, I was CM for a pack of 120 or so boys. Our Pack meetings were, well, packed and loud with siblings, parents, grandparents, etc. At our Blue and Gold we could have close to 300 people in the fellowship hall. Yep, before the selected boys brought in the flags, I would step to the microphone and ask for everyone's attention. No, I didn't do signs up since so many people in the room wouldn't really know what that meant. But, I did wait until everyone was quiet before signaling to the boys at the back to bring up the flags.

 

What I do now as a Scoutmaster is very different. Signs up is hardly ever used, by me, the other adults, or by the Scouts, but that is because the guys (and new adults) learn very early that expectations for their conduct is higher and, frankly, it is a much smaller group to deal with.

 

The OP asked about flag ceremonies for a Pack meeting, not Boy Scouts.

 

[Stosh 3452]

We can play the word games all day long and never get anywhere. SSScout has the right idea, RESPECT. If that is conveyed, the rest doesn't matter.

 

As an interesting side note, it is the Color Guard of the Color Company which is the historical term for the group that bears the flag. Notice that it isn't the Colors Guard or the Colors company so presenting the Colors is in fact incorrect.

 

The Color pertains to one flag, more than one flag represents the Colors, so if there is only one flag it is present the Color. Try that some time.

 

The original Color guard represented 12 people. They stood on the left end of the Color Company so they were in fact never out front, but marked the center of a regiment of men. This way everyone in the regiment knew their position relative to the flag. Most Color Guards only needed one Color, either the country's flag or the regimental color. Some times they carried both colors and in the case of the 8th WI Regiment of Volunteers, they also carried Old Abe the War Eagle. That was not a military norm even for that day and age.

 

The men in the regiment stood in two ranks, but the Color Guard had three ranks for four men. When the regiment went forward the Colors moved ahead of the regiment to show the way the regiment was to march, the 2nd and 3rd ranks filled the 1st and 2nd ranks so they held a place for them to move back to once the firing of the regiment began. No one wants to be down range when people are firing, duh!

 

The purpose of the 12 men were to make sure the flag was protected because once it dropped, the 1000 men of the regiment lost all reference on the field of battle. It was imperative to make sure it was visible at all times.

 

When we do flag ceremonies, obviously we are not doing it in a hostile environment and the location of the flag is not important. So the mini-recreation of the Color Guard is a ceremony of respect and nothing else. There are a few guidelines as to where it is supposed to end up, i.e. the right of the speaker, but for the most part it is merely symbolic in nature.

 

I have seen plenty of inappropriate displays of the flags over the past 60 years, but for the most part, the participants were trying their best of show their respect. For this I cannot fault them.

 

This past weekend at University of Scouting, I attended the Flag Etiquette session and one of the scouters commented how difficult it was to spread a huge flag over the local baseball diamond without it touching the ground. I'm sure it was difficult, but more importantly it was inappropriate because to display the flag horizontally is not allowed by civilians in the flag code. It should always be displayed elevated and flying free. However, when everyone in the stands stands up and sings the national anthem, I really can't fault them no matter how inappropriate they are.

 

Stosh

 

[BartHumphries 10]

We have someone, usually the Scoutmaster or the Committee Chair, in charge of conducting each Court of Honor. They're the ones that, with the printed program of what's going to happen, introduce each new segment. When the conductor gets up and first walks up to the podium/table, everyone knows to get quiet because it's starting.