Federal Charter vs. BSA Program

[CalicoPenn 729]

James West had tried to convince the Girl Scouts to rename themselves the Girl Guides for many years. He even appealed to Baden-Powell for help and was denied. But that didn't stop his attempt to do so until 1929. I imagine that "understanding" between the BSA and the GSA had a lot to do with the fact that the President of the Girl Scouts at that time - Lou Hoover - became First Lady of the United States when her husband was elected President of the United States. James West was a pretty intelligent man - and he knew better than to tick off the President of the United States.

 

By the way, can someone tell us the differences between the "methods" of the Boy Scouts of 1916 and today? I see an awful lot of similarities - uniforming, advancement, teaching outdoors skills, etc. I don't think anyone would have any real leg to stand on by insisting on the "methods of 1916" language.

[Kudu 186]

CalicoPenn writes:

 

James West had tried to convince the Girl Scouts to rename themselves the Girl Guides for many years.

 

I'm with West on that. What the GSUSA does is not "Scouting," likewise for what B-P called "Wolf Cubs."

 

The same is true for replacing Scoutcraft with values: The definition of Scouting as "making ethical decisions" or as "Leadership and Character."

 

No wonder most red-blooded American boys snicker when they hear the word "Scouting."

 

CalicoPenn writes:

 

By the way, can someone tell us the differences between the "methods" of the Boy Scouts of 1916 and today?

 

Yes. For a 108 year history of the methods of "Scouting," see:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/index.htm

 

CalicoPenn writes:

 

I see an awful lot of similarities - uniforming, advancement, teaching outdoors skills, etc.

 

At that time nobody was abstracting the process with the so-called "Eight Methods" theory.

 

The BSA was using a leadership experts theory called the "Six Principles of Boy-Work" to stamp out Baden-Powell's Patrol System in the United States:

 

The Patrol Leader and the Scout Master

 

Care should be taken by the Scout Master that the patrol leaders do not have too great authority in the supervision of their patrols. The success of the troop affairs and supervision of patrol progress is, in the last analysis, the responsibility of the Scout Master and not that of the patrol leader. There is also a danger, in magnifying the patrol leader in this way, of inordinately swelling the ordinary boy's head. The activities of the patrol should not be left to the judgment of any patrol leader, and if the Scout Master wants to delegate the work of the patrol and troop, the whole group should reach a decision in regard to the plan [emphasis added].

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/1st/index.htm

 

On September 21, 1923 James West introduced a watered-down version of B-P's Patrol System called the "Patrol Method" but it did not take off until the late 1930s when William Hillcourt's third edition of the Handbook for Scoutmasters was published.

 

When William Hillcourt retired in 1965, a new leadership experts theory called "Leadership Development" declared war on the Congressional Charter (Scoutcraft) and put the Patrol Method back on a short Troop Method leash:

 

In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/index.htm

 

CalicoPenn writes:

 

I don't think anyone would have any real leg to stand on by insisting on the "methods of 1916" language.

 

If you have enough lawyers and "are deadly serious...absolutely serious about this" (replacing Scoutcraft with soccer) you can cut off anyone's legs to stand on:

 

Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us.

 

...when we say 'we want to take your twelve-year-old son but you can't come' we're making a mistake there. We have to engage an entire family... For example one of our pilot programs over the last recent years has been Scouting and soccer...

 

It's crucial to us that we recognize the importance of hiring bilingual staff ... to give traction to these programs, and that's a major resource issue for us and one that we are willing to invest in as we go forward... We are deadly serious. We are absolutely serious about this.

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

(This message has been edited by kudu)