swimming holes & aquatics safety

[SMT224 10]

We will be camping at two places this summer that have an abundance of swimming holes along streams. They are usually no larger than 10-20 feet across and 1-6 feet deep. They are often used by the public. No real swimming, absolutely no diving. Mainly getting wet and cooling off.

 

Has anyone dealt with this issue before in terms of implementation of safe swim defense?

 

Prior to arriving at the holes I intent to have the Safe Swim Defense talk with the Scouts, establish buddy groups based on ability groups, designate lookouts and life guards, and then do establish causal & unmarked ability areas when we arrive (i.e. non-swimmers stay over there, beginners don't go past those there rocks, swimmers can go anywhere).

 

I want this all to be as invisible to the other folks using the swimming holes as possible.

 

Kosher in terms of GSS?

 

Thanks!

[shortridge 184]

I admit I'm not as experienced on the aquatics front as others here, but SSD does state that the ability areas should be marked:

 

* "The nonswimmer area should be no more than waist to chest deep and should be enclosed by physical boundaries such as the shore, a pier, or lines."

 

* "The enclosed beginner area should contain water of standing depth and may extend to depths just over the head."

 

In this case, since the depth doesn't go beyond six feet, it would probably be simple enough to string a line (ideally with floats - capped milk jugs work fine) over the swimming hole clearly marking the point between chest-deep (for your smallest Scouts) and the beginner's area. You also want to do a survey and make sure any hazards are clearly marked.

 

I can see why you'd want your use to be as invisible to other groups as possible - you probably don't want it to seem like the Scouts are invading! But realistically, can lots of people (beyond standard Scout troop size) fit in a 10-20-foot-across swimming hole? I'd wager that y'all would be the only ones able to squeeze in.

[rdclements 10]

Safe Swim Defense is easy to apply to this situation; I'm sure that you'll be able to adapt to the conditions that you find.

 

I don't get why a scout group would want to keep safety practices invisible to others.

 

-R

[SMT224 10]

I guess my dilemma is whether to set up the ability areas as described in the SSD training - ropes, weights, & floating markers designating non-swimmer, beginner, & swimmer area. The problem is not only are swimming holes small and used by other folks (who may find ropes and markers strung all over the place a serious infringement) but with moving water, it seems hard to mark anything.

 

It seems better to let the ability groups know where they can go and where they can't go, and then keep an eye on the Scouts.

 

rdclements - I'm not trying to make safety invisible (most certainly not to the Scouts), but why take over the swimming hole with ropes and markers if we as a Scouting group can come up with a way to coexist with others so everyone can enjoy the swimming hole.

 

The point of my post is to see how others have handled a similar situation.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

IMO, If you unit is doing this as a Scouting activity, you follow SSD and follow procedures to check the swimming hole. Then, you follow procedures to operate the swimming hole.

 

From G2SS:

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss02.aspx#_safe

 

Safe Area:

All swimming areas must be carefully inspected and prepared for safety prior to each activity. Water depth, quality, temperature, movement, and clarity are important considerations. Hazards must be eliminated or isolated by conspicuous markings and discussed with participants.

 

Controlled Access: There must be safe areas for all participating ability groups to enter and leave the water. Swimming areas of appropriate depth must be defined for each ability group. The entire area must be within easy reach of designated rescue personnel. The area must be clear of boat traffic, surfing, or other nonswimming activities.

 

Bottom Conditions and Depth: The bottom must be clear of trees and debris. Abrupt changes in depth are not allowed in the nonswimmer area. Isolated underwater hazards should be marked with floats. Rescue personnel must be able to easily reach the bottom. Maximum recommended water depth in clear water is 12 feet. Maximum water depth in turbid water is 8 feet.

 

Visibility: Underwater swimming and diving are prohibited in turbid water. Turbid water exists when a swimmer treading water cannot see his feet. Swimming at night is allowed only in areas with water clarity and lighting sufficient for good visibility both above and below the surface.

Diving and elevated entry: Diving is permitted only into clear, unobstructed water from heights no greater than 40 inches. Water depth must be at least 7 feet. Bottom depth contours below diving boards and elevated surfaces require greater water depths and must conform to state regulations. Persons should not jump into water from heights greater than they are tall, and should jump only into water chest deep or greater with minimal risk from contact with the bottom. No elevated entry is permitted where the person must clear any obstacle, including land.

 

Water temperature: Comfortable water temperature for swimming is near 80 degrees. Activity in water at 70 degrees or less should be of limited duration and closely monitored for negative effects of chilling.

 

Water quality: Bodies of stagnant, foul water, areas with significant algae or foam, or areas polluted by livestock or waterfowl should be avoided. Comply with any signs posted by local health authorities. Swimming is not allowed in swimming pools with green, murky, or cloudy water.

 

Moving water: Participants should be able to easily regain and maintain their footing in currents or waves. Areas with large waves, swiftly flowing currents, or moderate currents that flow toward the open sea or into areas of danger should be avoided.

 

Weather: Participants should be moved from the water to a position of safety whenever lightning or thunder threatens. Wait at least 30 minutes after the last lightning flash or thunder before leaving shelter. Take precautions to prevent sunburn, dehydration, and hypothermia.

Life jacket use: Swimming in clear water over 12 feet deep, in turbid water over 8 feet deep, or in flowing water may be allowed if all participants wear properly fitted, Coast Guardapproved life jackets and the supervisor determines that swimming with life jackets is safe under the circumstances.(This message has been edited by John-in-Kc)

[Gunny2862 11]

It's pretty easy to mark even in moving water, and I would propose that if the water is moving fast enough to drag your balloon or water jug tied to a rock on the bottom, that you might want to reconsider swimming there. See John's post above...section on moving water...

[rdclements 10]

It sounds like a great oppty for your scouts to figure out a solution. What materials they need to carry, how to mark the areas, etc.

 

Being a respectful neighbor with other users of the area is good practice. However, these safety practices work: on past outings it was not our youth who ran into trouble, but others in the area who needed our assistance.

[dg98adams 18]

On our Canoe Trips, we often have spots where the boys get out and cool off. PFD's stay on.

 

Usually these spots are only 3-4 feet deep.

Here's what I do for these "swimmin" holes.

 

Post an older Scout (usually have 1 or 2 who are BSA Lifeguard) in the middle to watch upstream where the beginner swimmers are, and I stay on the downstream side (usually still in a Canoe in the water) in the middle of the river to watch the swimmers and mark the end of the swimming area. We both keep the throw bag (rope)/float handy.

 

Everyone keeps their shoes/sandals/water shoes on...no bare feet. If we were at a beach on a lake I would make the footwear optional after checking it out.

 

 

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, to some extent da text of SSD was developed with a camp waterfront in mind, eh? Yeh can't be goin' to someone else's swim area or pool or whatnot and stringing up barriers and floats and buckets. Even your average public pool doesn't really have a separately roped off "beginner" area most of the time. Besides, havin' a lot of line in the water when there's a current is a dangerous hazard in and of itself.

 

Yeh do what's reasonable, SMT224. Know your kids, know their abilities, know the local hazards, have the right gear, keep a lookout appropriate to da environment and situation. You know the drill.

 

Beyond that, be courteous to other visitors.

 

Beavah

 

[Gags 10]

I think what you've laid out is good for areas where there is expected use by the public. IIRC, unless it's in bold type, the G2SS is a "guide", and not requirements. You seem to already have a good idea of what areas will be for which ability levels - you can always stick a cone or two along the shoreline in case one rock looks like another. But like Beavah mentioned - you know your kids best - I would think a non-swimmer would be afraid to go out much past waist deep water - but maybe you have that one daredevil who leaps before he thinks, and is likely to forget he's a buoyant as a stone?

 

And as was also mentioned - placing a rope in the water in a public area can be an invitation for it to be pulled on, tugged, used for flotation, etc. (How many times do the lifeguards at the pool blow to whistle to get people off the ropes?) You may spend more time "guarding" the rope in case it gets moved or wrapped around another swimmer (who wasn't expecting a rope in the middle of a stream) than watching the kids the rope is supposed to protect.

 

And I just wanted to add a "kudos" for finding a good ol' swimming hole to use - it's places like that that make for memorable trips. You're profile says mid-atlantic - where abouts will you be?

 

YiS,

 

Gags

[SMT224 10]

Thanks for all the comments & suggested guidance.

 

Gags - DC area, NCAC. How about you?

 

Here's a great resource: http://www.swimmingholes.org

 

 

[shortridge 184]

Whether boldfaced in the G2SS or not, the rules of Safe Swim Defense are just that, rules:

 

"Before a BSA group may engage in swimming activities of any kind, a minimum of one adult leader must complete Safe Swim Defense training, have a commitment card (No. 34243) with them, and agree to use the eight defenses in this plan."

 

The defenses are not that onerous. They're also very clearly written (in sharp constrast to much of the piffle put out by Irving). If you want to swim on a Scouting outing, you follow the rules:

 

"When setting up a safe swimming area in natural waters, use poles stuck in the bottom, or plastic bottles, balloons, or sticks attached to rock anchors with twine for boundary markers. Enclose nonswimmer and beginner areas with buoy lines (twine and floats) between markers. Mark the outer bounds of the swimmer's area with floats."

 

I must strongly disagree with Beavah's argument that SSD was designed for a camp waterfront, and that parts of it don't apply if you go to someone else's property or a public swimming area. SSD is clearly designed for any BSA swimming activity. Period.

 

All quoted material from www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Aquatics/safe-swim.aspx.

[Scoutfish 16]

As much as I am a proponent for common sense...I have to agree with shortridge in this case, Yeah, common sense may say that some rules are a bit too gacked on ideals, but this is not that case.

 

 

 

I agree! Camp waterfront has _ more than likely) already been prepared and set up in a way to ensure it's safe. Kinda part of camp.

 

To me, it is especially obvious that that SSD was designed specifically for private property and random swimming hole you encounter while rafting or hiking and end up near a river, pond, etc...

 

 

Public swim areas may be the exception. Are we talking about a pool, a specific area of a lake or beach ( * ) maintained by a city or town parks and recs group? Probably falls under some stringent guidlines for maint if it is.

 

And also, if you take a SSD class, it specifically uses the example of not falling victem to inconviencing other or figuring it's not worth the touble. Even uses a "boys will be boys" example too.

 

You follow the rules of SSD or don't swim!

 

 

( * ) When I lived in Block Island , Rhode Island, we used to go to an area called "State Beach" . It was a 1/2 mile section of beach that wqas maintained and kept up by the state. Even had a net a ways out in the surf to control sharks or big ole meanie fish. The state actually went so far as to fill in drop off holes and to try and keep the bottom level.

 

THis was back in 1977 so I have no idea if RH still does this.

[SMT224 10]

In thinking through this issue as I developed my initial query, and then reading the responses, and rereading SSD, I am inclined to concur with Beavah in terms of sheer common sense. The basic reason for SSD is to ensure Scouts do not drown. If we loose sight of that basic impetus, and instead begin to see the SSD as an entity into its self, we loose sight of common sense (IMHO).

 

While I agree with the spirit of what both shortridge & Scoutfish are saying, I truly believe I can say to my non-swimmers, "Do not go any further than an imaginary line between that rock and that tree.", and they are trustworthy enough to do what they are told. I believe such a "barrier" will become as solid and real as a rope, and will fulfill the both the spirit and intent of SSD. And since I know each and every one of them, and will be watching them, I have a high level of confidence they will be ok (are these just FLW?).

 

To say that the only way I can instill the notion that they cannot cross a particular boundary into deeper water (which they are terrified of anyway) is to create a physical barrier does not recognize that these boys can understand the SSD concept, can be obedient, and do have a sense of self preservation. Of course they are boys, and while I trust them, I will verify.

 

[shortridge 184]

And I'm not saying that your Scouts, or any others, wouldn't obey that imaginary line. They probably would, and nothing untoward would happen and everything would be OK and everyone would go home from the outing having had a lot of fun.

 

But the fact is that a Scouter trained in SSD and carrying out a Scouting swimming activity is bound to follow the rules laid out in SSD at this Scouting swimming activity. We can't, in good conscience at least, pick and choose the rules we want to follow. That's breaking the promise we made - it doesn't set a very good example.

 

I can understand why someone would want to minimize a troop's presence at this swimming hole if it's open to the public - kind of like LNT for the water, right? But I can't understand why someone would want to knowingly ignore the most basic mandatory water safety rules.