Dilemma

[Beavah 205]

His name was the only name in the hat. He accepted because there was no-one else.

 

Yah, dat's the way it always happens, eh? In fact, as OGE pointed out in da other thread, that's even the way its' supposed to happen. The committee identifies the best candidate, and approaches him. It's his to accept or decline. Only if the fellow declines do they move on to their second choice.

 

T259Eagle was da only one nominated because he was the fellow everyone felt was right for the job. He accepted their offer. They have moved on to other business relying on his acceptance. His family has moved on to other business, relying on (and proud of!) his acceptance. He's made a commitment to all of 'em.

 

I may be old fashioned, but I think a commitment is a commitment, eh? A man's word is his honor. Yeh don't renege three weeks later when yeh get a better offer. And yeh certainly don't short-circuit the committee by tryin' to shove someone else into the job who they never nominated.

 

T259Eagle's son is right, eh? Out of da mouths of babes. He's expecting his dad's word to be his bond. I expect he learned that from watchin' how his dad has conducted himself over many years. It's the sort of lesson that a boy learns from the example of his father. And his dad agreed to be Scoutmaster. And his dad knows that others are now relying on him. And he's rightly proud of his dad for that.

 

So da only choice his dad has is whether to live up to the commitment he's made. All the other stuff is just distraction and excuse.

 

IMHO, anyways . Like I said, I'm an old-fashioned fellow who thinks values really are timeless.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[boomerscout 35]

as important as SM is, I believe a CM is even more important. with too many single-parent homes and abusive parent homes, young boys need to be able to interact with a worthwhile adult male. This is more important at ages 7-10; if we wait until ages 11 & up, it may be too late

In my mind, trying to force someone to do something by laying a guilt trip onto him is akin to imposing slavery

[T259Eagle 10]

Well, I can no longer hold back.

 

I was initially not going to give this a response, feeling that this thread was not worth responding too. But I can no longer hold me feelings back. I visit this thread daily and every time it makes my blood boil. I felt that I had a dilemma that I needed some help with. Instead of getting useful suggestions, I get a big kick in the nuts. Is that really the scouting attitude? I know that it means different things to different people, but belittling people? Maybe I just dont have the thick skin that I need to use this site. I know that with any site, there are always the anti everything type. It is also amazing how someone can really know me and my morals in just a few posts. But there is some good in all this, this Thanksgiving I can honestly say that I am thankful that Beavah is not a part of our scouting program.

 

I am really a pretty laid back person. I dont normally let people get me upset like this, but to publicly call out my morals, child raising, and integrity. I think that would put anybody on the defensive.

 

I certainly want to thank those that truly provide some insight to this situation. Sorry it had to come to this.

[shortridge 184]

Lets hear what you guys think.

 

With respect, you asked for advice and opinions. That's what you got, from several angles and different degrees. Can't fault people for answering your question.

[OneHour 11]

T259Eagle, easy there big fella. I am still scratching my head as to how Beav's response enraged you. His response seems to be pretty in line with his warning ... "Yah, I'm goin' to approach this from a different angle, eh?" ... and that has always been Beav's trait. From time to time, he will make you think and go ... hmmmmm ... unlike a few of the other posters where you would want to go uggggghhhh!

 

Not knowing what Beav really meant, but as long as I have conversed with him or read many of his postings, he doesn't have a mean bone in his words (as far as I can tell). He will try to help. So not sure where the insults come in. As shortridge pointed out, you did ask for opinions.

 

As for my 2 cents, I'd pick being Scoutmaster. One would make much more impact on a scout! But remember ... your son will lose out on his time with ya. For some reasons, we fathers tend to hold our sons at much higher standards than other boys! Your time will be divided among the boys and more with the challenging boys. So ... you won't be "his" Scoutmaster ... you'll be their Scoutmaster. When I was a Cubmaster, I felt that I forgot my sons. Now that I am the Scoutmaster, I feel that I am not being fair to my sons. They can't goof-off or get into trouble as other boys would. If you want to have fun with your son, be a den leader or ASM!

 

"I fear that if I do not take the Cubmaster position that the Pack will dissolve." So ... a pack cannot be successful with only one leader ... the CM. You can help the Pack to become successful without being a CM! As a matter of fact, a pack is successful in part due to a strong Committe Chair and a strong committee. The CM, to me, is merely a showman and a leader to the den leaders. He/she pulls together the den leaders to ensure that they are successful. The CC is the glue of the Pack! The CC forms the committee. They go and find that perfect CM who is an entertainer and a good leader. Even better, a successful pack has an involved COR. So ... you can pull the pack together without being the Cubmaster.

 

If you do everything, when you leave then the pack is back at square one again. More than likely you will leave after a year or two because of being burnt out, then you will not enjoy boy scout. Now, that will be a traversty for both of your sons. Been there, almost done that!

 

Btw, your oldest will stay as long as you and/or your wife is involved in the Troop.

 

My 2 cent.

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[artjrk 11]

Random thoughts on this matter.

 

As a SM you will not only working with your older son, you will give a target for your younger son to work toward.

 

As a SM you can do many things to support the Pack. ie providing Den Chiefs, providing joint programs.

 

I don't think Beav was trying to belittle you. I read it as he wanted to remind you of the importance of the commitment you made when you accepted the position of SM in the first place. I think we all can use a gentle reminder sometimes. I sure do.

 

Continue to work with the CM and develop a strong relationship there. He can come in as an ASM and be with his son in the Troop. Maybe the two of you can work together to find another replacement for the CM position. I know others will say that's he CC job, but who better to know what it takes to do the job than one who has done it before. When I was asked to be SM, I was approached by the outgoing SM and the CC. Open teamwork between all the leaders makes it all work better.

[OneHour 11]

artjk ... you're correct; however, it's really the committee's job and the CC and SM/CM are part of the committee. I do believe that this is BSA formal process of succession. I know of a case where the SM and CC are husband and wife (and being the CO as well). Needless to say, no one else has a chance to say anything in the troop.

 

I found the link: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-500.pdf

 

When our Troop was looking for a replacement for our SM, they had a team and a list of candidates. They went down the list. I was told (which was not cool) that I was pretty much 3rd out of 4 candidates. It made me feel "great" to be asked (sort of not ...). So do make sure that the team is trustworthy! Feelings and prides can be hurt and the troop can lose good people if it is not conducted correctly. On the flip side, entitlement and automatic succession don't always work to the troop's advantage.

 

Cheers,

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmmm....

 

T259Eagle, I think yeh need to go back and re-read my comments in a different light, eh?

 

Yeh asked whether we thought it was OK if you quit the SM position you agreed to serve in. Some folks answered "well, maybe..." and we all started talkin' about stuff. We weren't all talkin' to you, we were also talkin' with each other, and the conversation was goin' its merry way as all big conversations do. If yeh wanted private advice instead of public discussion, yeh can send any of us a PM.

 

As a part of that bigger conversation, I mentioned to the group that I was lookin' at it differently and thought commitments were important things to honor. So often I see folks (kids especially) commit to one thing and then dump it as soon as they work out a better offer. And I suggested that if you did quit as Scoutmaster, it was not your business or the current Cubmaster's business to select the new Scoutmaster or Cubmaster. It goes back to the troop and pack committee to proceed as they see fit. Yeh shouldn't, mustn't do their job for them. Your only decision is whether to resign as Scoutmaster because this other fellow wants to apply for the job even though he didn't bother a week ago.

 

In response to boomerscout who seemed to think it was OK for you to bail because you were the only nominee, I wrote a longer response, where I praised you for your good values in raising your son because of his being thrilled about and trusting of your commitment. Boys who have that kind of faith only have it because their parents have spent a lot of years and a lot of effort being faithful to them. That's rare, and it's special, and I was praising you for it. And encouragin' you to think about this decision in that light, rather than in da calculus of manipulatin' adult staffing in two units (which isn't your job anyways). Believe me, many lads would dread their dad becomin' SM, or quietly fret about it rather than publicly celebrate it. I said that in my humble opinion that honoring one's commitments is a timeless value. One that you have lived up to in your son's eyes, and should keep on with.

 

Where yeh got all this other dross about me belittling you and all that I have no idea. I do reckon it's true that da language of my particular profession is a bit argumentative and abstruse, and even within that I'm a bit of a thickly-accented colloquial fellow . I apologize for my lack of clarity.

 

I wish yeh the best in your decision. You now have a full range of thoughts and opinions from which to inform your mind and your heart.

 

Whatever yeh choose, may the Great Scoutmaster grant you his Peace.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

T259Eagle, I don't know if this will be of comfort for you, but I often have no idea of what Beavah is talking about. I frequently call upon him to clarify what he means. I think his style can be quite confusing, but of all the things I have accused him of, either in public or private, being one who insults and belittles others is not his style. (unless of course its me because I swear that boy has it out for me).

 

Beavah does not make suggestions without having what he determines to be adequate facts, so I do not think he meant any disrespect, its just the way he communicates.

 

[Stosh 3452]

If one were to assume the worst in any and all communications it would not bode well for any of the comments on the forum. I find that if red flags pop up when I'm reading a post, my first assumption is maybe I've misread it rather than assuming the guy is out to get me.

 

I've accidentally pushed other's buttons on the forum and I have at times taken the Devil's Advocate position, not to cause friction, but to challenge thinking and understanding. I have even asked stupid questions because I didn't understand an issue, not because I'm trying to stir things up, but because I'm having a senior moment or I must plain thick on something. Either way, neither is intended to irritate someone.

 

Occasionally I poke a little fun at something only to find out the other didn't think it was funny. I try to catch these and apologize, but sometimes even that gets buy me.

 

I've been on the forum for some time now and I find that certain posters that comment often, (like Beavah) are sincerely trying their best to provide some quality insight into many different topics. If someone was to make a list of any "trouble makers" on this forum, IF Beavah made the list it'd be on the bottom, but I'm putting my money on Beavah not making the list at all. Me? I'd be in the top 1%

 

Stosh