issues with another leader

[Dustincoc 10]

I'm the ASM and have been for the past 5 years with several years before that as a scout in the troop. For the past 4 years I have been in college around 300 miles away but worked with the troop when I was in the area. The previous scoutmaster wasn't so good with the paperwork end of things and could not get any parent involvement to help so he was running a one man show for several years. Due to the paperwork issues catching up with him, he left a little over a year and a half ago(around may 2007). The other ASM at the time also left at that point due to previous issues with the current ASM. The guy who took over as SM han't had any involvement in scouting since his own youth days 30 years ago, so he was kind of lost as to what to do and the DE wasn't any help. Since I was going away again, he needed to find an ASM quickly.

 

The other ASM is who I have always had problems with and most of the boys dislike him too. He has been involved with the scoutingrent for the last 5 or so years previous to this. The former ASM was SPL when he asked the current ASM's wife to stop talking in the meeting(the troop voted that they didn't like her sons idea for something and she had a fit.) The family ended up leaving the troop and joining a troop closer to their home. Thay troop imploded several years later due to lack of leadership(everybody wanted to run the show but nobody wanted any responsibility) and they ended up back with us.

 

The current ASM likes to run the show at every meeting(which always turn into a BS session), we never get anything done, he just likes to spout orders all the time. The 3 of us(SM and 2 ASM's) will decide on something and then once its time comes, he's back to spouting orders. At summer camp(patrol cooking style camp) we were having problems getting the boys to wash their dishes and we got after them the first couple days and we were getting kind of sick of it, the three of us decided were going to let it go and see how long it took the boys to get sick of the mess and clean it up, yet this guy took to throwing anything he found left out on the ground(one night the boys left a salad out the night before and in the morning lettuce was scattered everywhere. He asked me a little latter if he had done the right thing.

 

The opportunity to get additional training on top of what is online is comming up he has no interest in getting any although both myself and the SM are going. He doesn't have a uniform. We have been a uniform shirt only troop for as long as I can remember, and we are struggling to get all the boys into a full uniform, yet during that discussion, he decided that by Dec 26, all the boys should be in the new full uniform($150)(I think he thinks that the new uniform will be mandatory at some point, he is a former state trooper).Right before this, we we're discussing annual dues and he was saying that some people may not be able to afford it all at once($25).

 

We both recognize that we don't get along, and just don't say much to each other in front of the boys. At times it seem like he doesn't even hear what I am saying. I've brought up our old adapt-a-highway program several times at meetings since I know that it existed but didn't really know that much more about it. Yet at one of our last meetings, his son mentioned it and it was like he didn't even know that it existed.

 

It also seems like all we are doing is fundraising within the past year, The SM and I didn't even have an idea how much money the troop had up until several weeks ago. The CC is essentially the entire committee, although the other ASM's wife also joins for things like BOR's. I get along great with the CC yet it seems like the other ASM and the CC are on one side of a wall and the SM and myself are on the other. The is closer to sitting on the wall though.

 

My little brother(who's in the troop), wants to have an extermination vote on the hole family and I believe that most of the boys would agree. Personally, I would just like to get rid of the ASM, his 2 sons are pretty good scouts and I'd hate to lose them, they are also our only 2 scouts that are past the 1st class rank, our SPL just got 1st at our last COH.

[Lisabob 13]

If you lose this guy you are also going to lose his 2 kids, no doubt. By the way you might want to check on the meaning of extermination. I hope that's not what your little brother has in mind. Regardless, troop membership is not determined by voting. This isn't "Survivor" or "American Idol."

 

2 questions and something to consider:

1) Where is your CO in all of this? If they are supporting one side or the other then that's how it is going to be. If they are oblivious then that's a different problem. Remember that the CO has the right to accept or reject adults as leaders for THEIR troop.

 

2) Who in this group has been trained for their positions? It doesn't sound like folks know what their own jobs are, let alone how to do them.

 

Something to consider - problems in troops are often traced back to bad dynamics among so-called adults. What a shame. If the adults cannot get along in a reasonably civil manner then they should not be attempting serve as leaders and role models for young men either. Put aside whatever bad feelings linger between you and this other ASM from your youth days - they are irrelevant to the roles you are both now in. Sit down with ALL of the other adults, map out what each of you are going to do at upcoming events, maybe see if everyone would consider attending leader training together so you're all on the same page. If that doesn't work and/or you can't set aside past differences and work well together, consider finding a different troop to serve or stepping back for a while.

 

(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[scoutldr 739]

Why is ANY adult "running the show"? That's the SPL's job. The SM's job is to train the youth leaders. The ASM's job is to assist the SM. Agree with Lisa, everyone needs to get trained for their positions. Sounds like the Unit Commissioner is long overdue for a visit.

[Gold Winger 9]

Okay, sounds like you have some problems. However, in Scouting the boys don't get to pick the ASMs or the SM or the CC or any adult, all adults serve at the pleasure of the CO.

 

Simple solution is that the SM has a conversation with guy and explain the facts of life to him and that if he doesn't straighten up, he can be terminated.

 

Another simple solution, that may not change much is a policy that says, "if you are registered, you must be trained."

 

Another thing is that you need to get some more adults involved in the committee. There is no rule that says that committee members have to be family. Have any friends who like Scouting? Recruit them as MCs to sit on BORs. Have a friend who is an accountant and might like to help? He can register and become the treasurer.

 

One of the biggest problems that most troops have is that nearly all adults involved with the troop have a child in the troop. Too often, their concern is their child and if other children don't benefit, that's too bad. Also they tend to bail out as soon as their child leaves.

[jtswestark 11]

Lots of baggage and boundry issues here, but it simply sounds to me that the SM needs to reign things in.

Anytime I come into a new leadership/managerial position, whether professional or volunteer, one of the first things I do is to hold a meeting and spell out what my approach is, whose job is what, and how I want things done. It certainly can ruffle some feathers, but it's necessary to establish authority. Then there must be consistent follow through with the points made in front of everyone or forget any credibility. This is what he needs to do to get this guy under control and everyone on the same page.

[Vicki 11]

Gotta tell ya - first thing I do when I come into a new leadership/managerial situation is triage. Figure out what has to change right now, what can be left alone for a bit, and what is being done that may not be done my way, but is getting done well enough as it is. It's kind of what I do - two different companies and two churches over the last twenty-odd years.

 

A little more difficult than coming in and throwing my weight around, but ruffles fewer feathers - especially volunteer feathers. Still establishes authority - cooperative as opposed to adversarial. Lets people know you'll listen to them, too. There's usually a couple of different ways to get to the same goal. Hmm, starts sounding like team-building.

 

In this situation, it sounds like you need more of a committee.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[John-in-KC 311]

Lots of good meat on the bones here!

 

BTW, what is your training level in the adult side of Scouting? The last paragraph, as Lisa pointed out, gives many of us great pause here. I hope you have New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster Fundamentals, and Older Leadership for Scoutmasters under your belt, among other BSA adult courses.

 

We don't have to LIKE each other as adults. We do have to share a common vision (what we want the future to look like) and common goals (how do we expect to implement that vision).

 

We'll do what we can to help, but understand, we're a bunch of people on the internet who share some vague understanding about Scouting

[Dustincoc 10]

The CO is very hands off with the troop, so they don't know about the situation. The past problems are not even factoring in, it's his current behavior/attitude that is the problem.

 

Both myself and the SM have been attempting to get trained for the past year and a half, and it has been brought up at round-tables that we are supposed to have this training and it never seems to be available. The CC is the former cub master and as far as I know, that is the extent of her training. Our DE for the past several years(who just quit) never let anyone in our district know what was going on and because of that, the leaders in our troop have been more or less on their own since they took over. We have a temporary DE who just took over and he wasn't told about the districts round table until the just before it and already had plans to be out of town at that time so we haven't met the new guy yet. The only training any of us have is what is available online from national, although at least myself and and SM would jump at the chance if training was offered.

 

The SM and I discussed the problems we're having with the other ASM at this past troop meeting and we both agree that although he has some good qualities, he is a problem. In an attempt to maintain the peace, we are both biting our tongues.

[Vicki 11]

I don't know how big your district is, but there's no rule that says you have to get trained in your district. It's nice if you can train in your district, just from the perspective of getting to know local folks. You might consider checking out the possibilities.

 

Vicki

[gwd-scouter 11]

As far as training dates go, check out your Council's website. Can't speak for all Councils, but ours shows dates and locations for all District and Council trainings. DE not going to roundtable? Shouldn't really be a big deal if your District Commissioner and Roundtable Commissioner are doing their jobs. Also, your District should have a training chairperson who schedules the dates for New Leader Essentials, Youth Protection, and other District training.

 

New Leader Essentials is offered by Districts for all new Cub Scout and Boy Scout Leaders and is usually offered several times in the Fall, especially because of new recruitment in Cub Scouts. SM Essentials, Troop Committee training, and Outdoor Leadership Skills are Council run training events. Both are held twice a year in our Council.

[fleetfootedfox 10]

Another thing you might run up against as a young leader is that an older guy may see you as just another kid.

 

Anyway, if you can't get training for whatever reason, you should at least get and read a copy of the Scoutmaster Handbook. There's also lots of stuff you can read on the internet as you are finding out.

 

Unfortunately, if you have a leader who is in the habit of barking orders a lot, training isn't likely to fix that. Knowing and doing are two different things. If he's been around a while, he probably knows that the organization is supposed to be using the patrol method and the adults are supposed to be working through the patrol leaders. Also, the fact this guy left and came back is sort of troubling. Sounds like he could be a habitual trouble-maker. Again, training will not fix that.

 

However, you are doing the right thing by working through the SM as it is his responsibility to fix the problem if it needs to be fixed. If he chooses to ignore the problem and it just gets worse, you may not have a lot of options.

 

Good luck.

[Dustincoc 10]

I got the SM Handbook back when I first started as a leader. The other ASM way know how things are supposed to work but thinks it's easier just to tell everyone what to do(that's what he said at summer camp).

 

We've got the largest or one of the largest council's east of the mississippi. The council website helpful about anything, the information on Scouting University didn't get posted until after the registration deadline.