le Voyageur 72 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 From my Man O' War runner that I've been using over the past two seasons in SERNE anchor systems using deadman chocks came a bit of insight for a new climbing knot that I'm calling the Chimera... Like the Alpine Butterfly it can be tied anywhere along the length of the rope, or used at the ends for hauling systems, to secure a climber to the belay line the same as the F8 Trace, or for rescue work. The big plus is it's Redirect which gives it greater flexibilty. Plans are to do a write up with photos and submit it for consideration.... Link to post Share on other sites
struax 10 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Voyageur, I would first consult Ashleys before submitting it. If i am following what youare stating it sounds as if you are talking about a "bosuns chair knot". just some advise. scott Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 I've several sources older then Ashleys. one being an 18th century manual on sailing and rigging...however, it's nowhere near a bosun chair knot. So far, no match up. None the less, I'll continue to research it, as I've found that many times those claiming to have invented a new knot have only rediscovered the past... as an example, an 18th century Blood Knot is known today as a Fisherman's or Grapevine... Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Yah, are yeh goin' to share or leave us all hangin'? B Link to post Share on other sites
struax 10 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Voyageur, Like Beavah said are ya gonna leave us hanging on those sources....(sounds like they would be good for the library. If 18th cen sailing would that be the Midshipmans Apprentice? (Sheet Anchor) But also would love to hear detailed description of knot!!! scott Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Here's a short list of my key referance books..... The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel The Tree Climbers' Guide (3rd Ed.) Military Mountaineering U.S. Army FM 3-97.61 Here's how to tie this knot... Begin with a bight about one arm's length. About 8 to 10 inches from the bitter end tie in a overhand. knot (at this point the knot can be tied into the harness) Bring the loop up through the overhand. Reduce these loops to about 1 1/2 to 2 inches in D. Tie the next overhand above the first keeping the same D. about the same size as the lower loops. Snug and dress the knot. This is the Redirect loop.... Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Yah, hmmmm.... Da old "A Picture is worth a Thousand Words" problem, eh? I got confused from the get-go, though... I thought that like the Butterfly, this can be tied mid-rope. But it starts with an overhand, which has to be tied usin' a running end. 8} Is the overhand tied on the bight? Then the bight is passed through the overhand and tied in an opposing overhand, as thought it were a sort of Fisherman's knot? Tryin' to picture in my mind, but it seems like that would compromise the first overhand? But maybe not. B Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Agree, wish there was a way to post photos here...but, let's see if I can better confuse it.... Form the bight, and tie a overhand in the bight near the top leaving about 8 to 10 inches of tail at the standing end. Push the end of the loop up and back through the overhand's deadeye. Adjust the loops, then tie the second overhand above the first. Dress and snug the knot. In effect it's a grapevine that bowties three fixed loops. Two on the botton, one at the top..... Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Yah, OK, I think I've got it tied now, eh? What you describe is pretty much what I had been envisioning. If yeh pull on the redirect loop, do the first two loops collapse (eventually untying if they aren't attached to a fixed point like a harness)? Sort of resembles a double fisherman on a bight? It is an interestin' thing, eh? B Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 happy dance....once you get the hang of it, it's fairly simple to tie. I've yet to see it come apart. But that's with static loading. This summer, plans are to subject it to several Fall Factor 2's to see what happens....for the Redirect I'll run it through several different types of hauling systems, and off axis loading to see how well it works.... Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Another thought per your concern, B which is a great question... One of the problems that I've notice is that it could be accidently tied using a half hitch for the top knot instead of the overhand. I'll add that to the test to see where it's goes. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Yah, I'd be concerned about the off-axis loadin', or more properly loads through the knot if yeh tried to employ it like the alpine butterfly. Seems like that kind of load would pull it apart a bit. I'm curious what you find when you load it. Double fisherman knots can be a real bear to untie after they've been heavily loaded, but I'm not sure whether this would behave the same way. Looks like fun to play with, anyway! Beavah Link to post Share on other sites
frank10 12 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Can this knot be worn by both scouts and scouters? Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted February 15, 2008 Author Share Posted February 15, 2008 Sure....if you don't mind walking around in a harness tied into 60 meters of rope.... Link to post Share on other sites
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