Inappropriate touching of Scouts by leaders

[Source 10]

Because this is a large forum and a very good and popular form for Scouters I do not want to give any real details BUT please try and understand and help here.

 

What is the proper procedure according to BSA when an adult leader has touched boys that is considered inappropriate touching ? It is not something that is purely a sexual touching. It is something that a dad might do to his own son when picking on eachother, BUT it is something a parent would think is inappropriate for an adult to do to a boy that is not his own. It would be something like pinching a boy in the butt.

 

First just to be sure I am not over thinking, would you other adults consider it inappropriate touching if another adult did something like pinched your son in the butt while on a Scout campout ?

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

Yes I would consider that inappropriate, if that's what happened.

 

As a parent, one option might be to go to the SM and CC and discuss the matter. Another option (escalation) might be to go to the CO. A third option (really escalation) would be to go to all of the above and the council professional staff (DE and/or SE). Another option (really, really escalation) would be to go to the legal authorities.

 

Depending on the details of the situation, which I understand you do not want to share, some of the above options might be more or less appropriate. If it is a matter of a single pinch and nothing else, personally I would choose to start with the first or second option, rather than the third or fourth options.

 

Note that, since you've already publicly tried and failed to oust the SM, you may face some push-back if the allegation is against him and if it comes down to a you said/SM said situation. I'm sorry to say this but I think it is likely to be true, given past history of interactions between you, as you've described them in other posts.

 

You might also find it useful to have a look through the BSA's online Youth Protection Training module. You can find it here:

http://olc.scouting.org/ (you have to create a free account to access the material, but you don't have to be a registered BSA volunteer to do so) All "trained" unit leaders are supposed to have completed Youth Protection Training, either at a face-to-face training session or online.

 

 

 

 

[Source 10]

Well the SM issue has been fixed. We have had a talk with him and he has agreed he has made some bad choices and will work with his ASMs more from now on and would be willing to possible have CO-SM or even allow someone else to take the SM possition if need be.

 

SO it seems simple communication with the SM has worked in that issue, and consideing this new issue with 2 Scouts and a ASM has come up he has worked with parents and ASM to try and come up with the appropriate course of action.

 

The allegation are not against our SM infact the SM has been VERY helpful in this issue, and the ASM they are against has admitted to going to far and continuing even after a SCOUT told him to stop.

 

 

[evmori 11]

Why not just pull the ASM aside & tell him to stop it or charges will be filed! Bet that ends the problem.

[Gunny2862 11]

Without any details, I would want to know if this was a perception issue or an actually inappropriate action.

 

I would probably think about approaching the SM first. Context matters if it's a perception issue.

 

That said, a butt pinch - inappropriate. A full contact hug - not going there unless they've lost a parent, or were awarded their Eagle, or got heir first pin (or the first time they went three periods w/o getting pinned)in a club or school match.

The football player(light)chuck on the back of the head - much safer than the same scenario butt slap(not going there either) for a manly recognition of a job well done, but still easily seen as inappropriate. Hand on shoulder to hold attention, possibly congratulate or reprove - not inappropriate in MOST instances.

 

But there are those who see ANY physical contact between a Scouter and a Scout as inappropriate. I see it as safer not to be touching Scouts but not necessarily always inappropriate, especially if the requisite other adults are present. The no physical contact at all scenario keeps the adults out of even "no contact" games like basketball. Although it is readily admitted an adult looking for an excuse could hardly find a better venue than a game of shirts v. skins.

 

But as Lisabob said, (and after reviewing your posts)you do seem to have issues with this SM. My question is are you dissatisfied and witch hunting(consciously or not) or are there REAL problems here?

 

For me, the fact is that I will occasionally and in the right circumstances and occasions(usually open venues with plenty of people, including the non-scouts parents around) hug my son's non-scouting friends, half-hug congratulate teammates, play outdoor sports with his non-scout friends when I will not regularly do the same activities with his friends who are scouts, whether or not they are a part of our troop, just because of the perception issues. Of course when coaching/teaching the youth wrestling club members this puts me in the situation of avoiding my and the other known scouts while working with the other boys.

 

Is it discrimination, sure, ya, you bet, but it does help cover my butt from those who want to see inappropriate touching when a SM touches any Scout for any reason.

 

(WOW, the 30 minutes between when I read and when I finally posted made a world of difference in context.)(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[Bob White 20]

The first step would be to talk to an adult you trust. I am hopeful that would be one or both of your parents.

[Source 10]

I can a sure you it is not a witch hunt. It is really more a new troop and learning issues and growing pains and knowing the right course of action. It may seem as a witch hunt sometimes because I am the only one in our troop that will actually speak up about issues, weather they are mine or someone else who came to me and is scared to say anything. I have 35 years experience as a Scouter, but many of the last years have been CUBS and Webelos and just the last couple years back in Boy Scouts. MANY things have changed since I was a Scout and a ASM back in the 70's and 80's Things are not handle the same now as they once where, and I dont want to over step my boundaries, I just want to make sure I am doing the right thing and the SM and other ASMs are doing the right thing with the boys in mind.

[Bob White 20]

Sorry

It was not clear that you were an adult leader. In that case since you do not believe that there is an abusive behavior perhaps you should tak with the individual abpout your concerns that his pinching and what ever other behavior you witnessed is not appropriate?

[Gunny2862 11]

Source,

Then keep on keeping on, as they said in the 70's.

 

I was just expanding a little bit on Lisabobs question.

 

I'm glad you had a good result on this one!(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[ScoutNut 147]

Source, from what you have said - It was not a sexual thing. There was no Youth Protection issue. The ASM has admitted to it. The SM knows about the incident. The SM is working with the ASM and the parents of the boys involved to find a solution.

 

It sounds to me like it is being handled appropriately enough.

 

Without any more info on the incident and exactly what you are concerned about, unless you are the ASM involved, or the parent of one of the boys involved, I would say that there is nothing here for you to get involved in. The situation is being handled.

 

 

[Source 10]

I am the parent of one of the boys and a ASM in the troop. By any parent especially the parents whos Scouts where involved, the touching was inappropriate. It was not in a sexual manner BUT was in areas that any parent would consider inappropriate areas for adults to be touching a child on a Scout event.

[Source 10]

OK let me ask this. Would any of you consider another adult hitting or pinching your sons butt or thighs on a campout inappropriate or sexual ?

 

 

[CalicoPenn 729]

You are a parent of one of the youths involved. If you believe the touching was inappropriate, then it was inappropiate. You shouldn't need our opinions validate what you already believe to be true.

 

You say you are working with this ASM to come to some kind of resolution. When it comes right down to it, you really only have two options available. 1: Work to expel him from the unit or have him criminally charged or in some other way punish him for this. Or 2: Forgive him and trust that it will never happen again - keeping a quiet eye on him for a time to see that the trust is not misplaced - and then move-on.

 

You need to do what you think is right for your son and not worry about what we or anyone else thinks.

 

Calico

[Source 10]

Thank you very much for all your answers and statements.

 

I have found out that this is not the first issue with this adult leader and the Committee Chairman has another complaint about him and he will be asked to leave the troop.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmmm....

 

Not quite sure where we're tryin' to go here.

 

In this case you are apparently responding as a parent. That's fine, eh?

 

You pull the gentleman aside and say "Hey, I know you didn't mean anything by it, but that's not OK with me. Please don't ever do it again." The gent acknowledges you sheepishly, tries to make an excuse to explain he didn't mean anything by it, apologizes, whatever. End of story, incident finished, return to friendly scouting.

 

As BobWhite suggests, if you're an ASM and just watching this and it makes you a touch uncomfortable, you do the same thing, eh?

 

If it's a repeated issue and the guy keeps it up after you've approached him about it, then you bring it to the SM/CC's attention and let 'em handle it. And after that on up the chain if appropriate as Lisa'bob describes.

 

What you seem to be describing is in your own words "something a dad might do to his own son" while being playful or whatever. Incidental horseplay or affection doesn't in my mind rise beyond "Hey, George, you should think about that a bit more and maybe avoid the touching, eh?" But I reckon we can't give yeh a more general answer without knowing the type of touching and the context and the players involved and whether there's any subtext or "grooming" behaviors or whatnot.

 

Me personally as a dad, I was always grateful for the people in my son's life who were affectionate. Kids need hugs from teachers and coaches and friends and SMs on occasion, not just from dad. And a little bit of friendly roughhousin' is fine, too. How many games of "try to drown the SM" involve the SM pickin' up Joey and sendin' him flying with delight to splashdown?

 

Beavah