How Much Commitment is Enough?

[awesome1_in_cc 10]

Just my 2 cents by our Troop has stayed away from the bylaws although it has been brought up many times as Im sure it has in most Troops. Typically I see that new leaders in my unit are the first ones to bring up attendance requirements for the Scouts in the Troop. I as SM am dead set against it and prefer and agree that Scouts should be treated as individuals and each case looked at on its own merits.

 

Case in point, I have a scout right now that is close to Eagle and is running out of time. That said, he doesnt attend many of the Troop meetings because he has a part-time job trying to earn money for collage. He doesnt make it to many Troop outings anymore, because he is really active in his Youth group at Church, volunteers his time at both the local animal shelter and Habitat for Humanity, etc.

 

If our unit had a fast/hard requirement for attendance, this young man would be declined (some of my Assistant Scoutmasters already want to do this) for lack of attendance even though this young man is doing exactly what we Scout Leaders have been teaching him was the right thing to do for years.

 

Should I punish him for making his community a better place to live or for earning his own way or maybe because he is being faithful to his Church and religious beliefs?

 

No need to answer as I already know the answer, I will have no problem with or lose any sleep when the day comes to recommend him for the rank of Eagle.

 

I sincerely hope that all my Scouts someday have these kinds of attendance problems as it will be a much better world!!

 

[adanecito 11]

I agree the troop should be understanding of that. My son went to Japan for most of the summer to learn the language and then also went to New York to represent his state and school in a national competition. When his below acceptable attendence was brought up the SM excused him although another leader did not like that. When the attendence was adjusted he met the commitment requirements.

I was happy of course and realized you will run into hardliners in any organization. There are good reasons sometimes for a heavy hand but I have a difficult time in believing it was needed.

[awesome1_in_cc 10]

adanecito,

 

The problem as I see it with putting such requirements into a "bylaw" or other hard/fast form is that it takes away the leaders ability to judge each case individually. I guess you can go with an excused or non-excused absent but then we are back to a judgement call which is basically the way it is done now.

 

I do wish you guys luck with what you are trying to accomplish as it is a noble goal. I also sincerly hope that some Scout in the future won't get wrongly caught by these bylaws like what almost happened to your son.

 

 

[BrentAllen 10]

awesome1,

We all have to make choices, and live with those choices. That boy has made the choice that other things are more important than Scouting, and that is fine. In my book, he has made the choice to give up Scouting, and his chance at earning Eagle. Regardless of any other interpretation, the first requirement for Eagle is be active in our troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout, with a reference to page 169.

 

Page 169 states "To gain full advantage of all that Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun adventures. If you're there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success."

This boy is not meeting any of that description. He has shown that he doesn't have time for Scouting. How can he earn a rank in Scouting if he doesn't have time for Scouting? All those other activities are great, but they aren't Scouting. Are you going to give an Eagle to others who are in this boy's youth group at church and volunteer at the animal shelter and HH?

Eagle was described in the first Boy Scout Handbook as "the all-round perfect scout", a definition I think that still applies. Does this definition apply to this boy? If all your other scouts showed up as little as he did, would you be happy?

[awesome1_in_cc 10]

BrentAllen,

 

I probally need to clarify the situation a little. The scout in question earned his Life in February of 2005 and after doing so completed two terms as our SPL and also 1 term as a troop guide. During those times he was more then active with the troop by any standard. I certainly feel that he has more than meet the requirement for "the first requirement for Eagle is be active in our troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout, with a reference to page 169."

 

No where in any BSA literture does it say that a scout has to attend 70% (or whatever number)of your troops actitivities from the time you earn Life until the day you earn your Eagle.

 

The problem I have right now is that our unit has several new adult leaders who have only been with the troop for about 8 months now who think he is "not active" by their defition. I totally disagree with them as does our CC who has been with the unit far longer then me.

 

"Are you going to give an Eagle to others who are in this boy's youth group at church and volunteer at the animal shelter and HH?"

 

Not a chance on that one but I also refuse let well meaning adult leaders "hose" this scout out of something he has EARNED based on their narrow view and knowledge of the situation. This is not something he is be "given" but rather something he has EARNED. He has meet the requirements as listed by the BSA and we are not allowed to add to or take away from those requirements.

 

When we put percetages on attendance for Ranks aren't we adding to the BSA requirements?

 

"Eagle was described in the first Boy Scout Handbook as "the all-round perfect scout", a definition I think that still applies. Does this definition apply to this boy?"

 

He is striving to live by the Scout Oath and Law in his everyday life and holds those as the compass for is life, he has over 100 nights camping during his 6 years with the troop, has held a POR for most of that time, still gets to as many Troop activities as possible to help the younger Scouts, is always found teaching or helping the younger scouts with their skills when he can make the meetings, so in my mind yes!!!

 

"If all your other scouts showed up as little as he did, would you be happy?"

 

Loaded question, depends on why they are not showing up. Which is exactly my point, having a hard/fast 70% (or whatever) gives you no room for evaluation of the facts. It makes everything Black or White and takes all input away from the Scoutmaster.

 

I would never advocate watering down requirements as defined by the BSA but I'm also not for adding to them.

 

I just present the Scouting program in my unit and try to stay away from "fine tuning it" in order to improve it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, awesome1. Yeh gotta make the call for your unit, eh? Sometimes new leaders don't pick up on the unit's "ethic" and style. But there's another possibility, eh? Those new leaders are telling you honestly "From what we're seeing, this lad is not the sort of example we want held up as an Eagle Scout." It's worth hearing them out, because you can bet other parents and new boys are thinking the same thing. Listen carefully to all input.

 

I'd sit down with 'em over a beverage and explain all the great things this lad did as SPL after he became life, and how you think that measures up (compared to the other kids or whatever). In turn I'd listen carefully to their thoughts and feelings on the matter. Together, as the adult leaders in the troop, you should reach consensus on what your expectations should be. Yeh all have to be on the same page. I wouldn't make that a "BSA policy" matter. That's contentious and ugly, and you'll lose those ASMs if you whack 'em with policy rather than listening and hearin' 'em respectfully as colleagues.

 

For my part, I agree with you for this lad. Chances are all the boys still remember him and his efforts, so the kids, who are the most important, will truly "recognize" him as an Eagle Scout. But yeh gotta watch the example you're giving to the new kids and parents, too. Will they come back at you and say "My kid deserves Star even though he never showed up, just like that other boy?"

 

When we put percetages on attendance for Ranks aren't we adding to the BSA requirements?

 

Yah, folks will make that argument. But like BrentAllen points out, we really do want the kids we Recognize and Applaud to be good examples to other boys, eh? And the BSA really does expect real, honest-to-goodness active participation.

 

So I don't see anything wrong with havin' a percentage expectation to make things more clear to a boy or family. I don't think that's any more "adding to the requirements" than saying "when you demonstrate First Aid for a serious burn, it has to be part of a mock scenario". Or sayin' "demonstrating lighting a lightweight stove must include using proper safety techniques and selecting an appropriate spot to set up the stove safely."

 

There's room for a MBC or a SM to explain how he/she interprets the requirements and what expectations must be met for a requirement to be fulfilled.

 

Folks shouldn't hold on to percentages any more than they should hold on to any other "rule" if the result isn't fair or just. But nor should they just blow off the guidelines set by the SM to be helpful in explaining the expectations.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[BrentAllen 10]

awesome1,

Thanks for the clarification - that certainly adds more to the story. Balancing previous duty with setting an example for the Troop is tough job. It sounds like you are trying to be as fair as you can. Good luck with it.

[GaHillBilly 10]

Beavah wrote (in less abbreviated fashion):

"I'd sit down with 'em over a beverage and explain all the . . .

In turn I'd listen carefully . . .

Yeh all have to be on the same page . . .

. . . listening and hearin' 'em respectfully as colleagues."

 

When I saw the thread, I was thinking of 'how much commitment' it took from an SM or other volunteer. I guess that's why I picked up on your comments. Well, that, and the fact that not doing this sort of communication is pretty much where the problems are arising here locally. The lead ASM told me this past weekend, on the campout, that even he and the SM don't have time to work things out, and that currently even he doesn't know what's going on next, with the troop.

 

But . . . (and as they say, it's a BIG butt!) doing what you describe takes a HUGE amount of time. As I figure out what's going wrong here locally, and then work back to what it would have taken to keep it from going wrong, I keep coming up against the need for lots of purposeful communication, which takes LOTS of time. As a result, I have lots more sympathy for the SM. Unfortunately, sympathy doesn't fix anything.

 

The way it looks to me right now, starting a new troop the RIGHT way probably takes a SM 15 - 25 hours per week, plus outings . . . assuming you have able and willing volunteers. That's a pretty daunting commitment!

 

GaHillBilly

[Beavah 205]

Yah GaHillBilly, you're wise beyond your years!

 

You're exactly right. One of da most important things for the adult leaders in a troop to do is to have some long and detailed discussions about what they are doin' and why. Just like a husband and wife should have such conversations about raisin' kids. The leaders in a troop have to share values and a vision for what they're doin', and keep in touch with each other.

 

If you've got a strong CO, they help with that by choosin' leaders who share their vision. But dare I say that "proper" version of things only happens 20% of the time? *

 

You're dead-on accurate about the amount of time it takes. Scoutin' is a real commitment for adults who care. And yeh probably need to have over 75% attendance .

 

Beavah

 

* [Just for OGE - yah, 20% is my best guess, based on what I've seen in a few councils ]

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

B,

 

20%?? THAT HIGH??

 

If it's that high in my neck of the woods, I'd call it a minor miracle. Heck, I know more than one Troop which has gone to a lawyer and incorporated a separate parents group to own the trailer ad infinitum.

 

That doesn't even count the folks on the Left Coast (read Washington State) whose Councils have them self-charter.

 

You're right about the commitment to youth, though. I do not care if it is Scouting or a HS activity parent boosters group: You have to love these young folk enough to want to commit your time. The only reward is their smiles and achievements!

[GaHillBilly 10]

Beavah wrote:

 

"Yah GaHillBilly, you're wise beyond your years!"

 

Nah, you just don't know how many years we've got! ;-)