CO relations - can this relationship be saved?

[Lisabob 13]

Maybe it is because I opened my big mouth but I've been assigned the (possibly thankless) task of trying to improve relations between our CO and our troop. Things have soured to the point that many committee members and ASMs are openly espousing a move to a different CO. I mentioned that I thought that would be a shame...maybe this'll teach me to open the mouth!

 

So here's the deal. Our CO, a Lion's Club, is very small (6 or 7 members, all but 2 of whom are at least 70 - they meet in each other's living rooms) and not too active. They have been charter partners with this troop for over 60 years but in at least the last 5 years they have been on-paper only. Despite invitations, they haven't come to a single one of our events in that time period. They also don't provide a meeting place and didn't help us find a new one when we had to leave the National Guard post where we used to meet, they don't have any other youth programs for us to be a part of, they don't give any financial support, or a place to store gear. Recently, they've balked at signing paperwork for us (like leader apps and tour permits!) until they've had an opportunity to harangue us about what they perceive as our lack of gratitude.

 

In terms of activities, literally the only thing they DO is fundraise by standing outside of stores and soliciting cash donations. They then disburse this money to other community organizations that they feel are worthy.

 

This is the big sticking point. They have repeatedly, and increasingly vehemently, demanded that we fundraise with them. The COR recently said to me that "people who won't donate to us will donate to a young scout in uniform." We have been told by our DE, repeatedly and in writing, that we may not do this. We've shared that information with the CO, only to be told "well you USED TO do it" (back before any of the current adult leaders were with the troop - and that's possible, as the guy who ran the troop back then did pretty much whatever he wanted to do regardless of the rules - it was "his" troop).

 

So: they perceive us as ungrateful and unhelpful; the troop perceives them as uninterested and inflexible.

 

Lucky me...

 

Here's what I'm thinking of proposing to both sides and I'll appreciate feedback from all of you who aren't part of this situation.

 

1) While we can't fundraise and the Lions don't have any other events at all where we could do service for them, we CAN do service in their name, for community groups that they support with their fundraisers. For example, they donate to a local camp for disabled children, they help pay for upkeep at a community park, and they donate to the public library's books for the blind service. We could do service for any of these groups, on behalf of our CO.

 

2)We need to put their name on our troop trailer (it isn't there currently because they refused to help us pay for it)

 

3) The boys in the troop need to become aware of who their CO is, and express their gratitude for the fact that the CO is our partner. (I'm at a bit of a loss here - but a thank you note from the PLC maybe? Is that too cheezy???)

 

Note that most of the boys think our CO is a different service club in town, because we actually do a lot of service projects with that other service club.

 

4) The COR needs to attend at least a COH once a year and when that happens, we need to be sure to publicly thank them for their support.

 

To be honest, I don't think we really want a lot of money from them - though we really need a new troop trailer and help would be nice. Nor do we really need them to tell us how to run the troop. But this isn't much of a relationship we've got right now. I think the prevailing sentiment from the troop side is we'd like them to show a little bit of occasional interest in the troop and quit demanding that we fundraise for them every time we need them to sign paperwork.

 

Oh - and as to why not just switch COs? Well we could. The service club in town for whom we do several projects each year has asked if we'd like them to become our COs. They're eager to do it and much friendlier. But I see this as a last move, not least because the troop has been saving for several years for a new gear trailer and there's a lot of money in the account toward that right now. If we switched COs the troop would almost certainly lose that money. (not to mention the gear!) And of course it would create still more bad blood.

 

OK, I'm all ears. What do you think about the above ideas? Any other things I ought to be offering the CO? Are the troop's expectations out of line? I know several of you are CORs yourselves so I eagerly await your perspectives.

 

Lisa'bob

[Beavah 205]

Six or seven members, most over 70, don't provide meeting place, support, etc.? Yah, it may be time to close up the shop and move, eh? Especially if you have a relationship with another (younger, more youth-focused) organization. That's a strategic decision to discuss with your district leadership.

 

Tactically, though, you've got the right notion in terms of helpin' the troop reach out to the CO. While CO's are supposed to be owner-operators of troops, CO's that don't do a lot of youth work often don't know how to do that, or make the relationship truly collaborative.

 

Send them an annual report every year. With such a small group, invite them all to your COH's. Try to get members to sit in on your BOR's or come on a local car-camping trip to tell stories. Have the boys go fundraising with them, but not in uniform, or do a separate boy-led fundraiser for the CO.

 

I think what you're hearin' from them is that it doesn't feel like a partnership, and they want it to be. But they don't know or understand how the troop can contribute, so their only idea is "help us with our stuff."

 

 

[dan 10]

I think the number one thing that needs to be on your list is that the COR needs to attend the Council meetings and vote and represent the troop.

 

The first thing I think you need to do is get the write up of what a CO and COR is and what they should be doing, and share this with your COR, this may cause them to run! Someone here should know what BSA publication has that information

(This message has been edited by dan)

[dan 10]

LisaBob

Is the troop really ready to have a COR running the show?

[John-in-KC 311]

Lisa,

 

Other things:

 

Patrol Good Turns ... mowing members lawns, helping them with the gardens, getting to know some folks who were stalwarts of the community.

 

Invite them to a potluck COH (I know, most units don't do dinners anymore... too many parents can't/won't cook), and assign each patrol a member and his/her spouse. Make them feel special.

 

Dedicate the Troops service project time to Lions activities. As I recall, Lions are strong about collecting old eyeglasses for reuse in countries where glasses are precious items indeed.

 

Hit me in private message if you need to. I'll be glad to give you my spin as a serving COR.

 

John

[Oak Tree 15]

Boy oh boy, that does sound like a no-win situation for you. If it weren't for the money/equipment issues, I'd certainly suggest moving. It doesn't sound like you're getting any benefit at all from having them as CO.

 

But if you want to try to salvage the relationship, I agree that all of your ideas are good things to try.

 

I don't know whether it would really be practical in your case, but I think that getting to know the men and actually befriending them would win a lot of good feelings. Ideally some parent from the troop would even join the group. I don't know whether you'd personally really want to join that group.

 

In our area, almost all of our units are sponsored by churches. It's very handy to have people from the unit who are members of the church. Some units don't, and that often seems to lead to problems.

 

I guess at a minimum, I'd try to sit down with the group, or one or two key members of the group, and really talk to them about what they hope to accomplish by sponsoring the troop. And then, depending on what their goals are, you can work together to try to come up with a plan that helps reach those goals.

 

Oak Tree

[scoutldr 732]

I believe one of the duties of a DE is to meet with every CO at least once a year to review their charter responsibilities. Sounds like that's not happening. If I were you, I'd be looking for a new CO. Ours is not much better, but at least we get a meeting place.

[John-in-KC 311]

scoutldr said>

If I were you, I'd be looking for a new CO.

 

There's one huge problem here: The matter of Troop funds and property.

 

If the Chartered Partner says "We wish to retain the equipment and funds against the future reorganization of a Troop," then the Troop loses everything ... tents, patrol boxes, dutch ovens, the troop trailer, you name it, it's gone.

 

That is their side of the charter agreement.

 

The object of this exercise is to get this relationship back on its feet. At the very last, one option is to go (preferably with the DE and a Commissioner) to the Chartered Partner and ask "Are you still willing to charter Boy Scout units? If not, we'd like to find them a more active Partner. When we find one, we would ask you pass along the Troop property to the new Partner."

 

I've seen the consequences of changing a Chartered Partner and not doing it well. Troop was out $$$$ for both their Treasury and the Troop equipment. Troop had to start over. Not Good.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Lynda J 10]

Have you talked to your District Exective about this. Sorry this is abuse of the Troop and the boys. They are not there to be at the beck and call of the Lion's Club Members. Our troop is chartered by the LO. Never a problem. Only once have they ask us to help with one of their fund raisers. And they didn't want the boys in uniform for that one.

I would be looking for another CO. Check with a group that has maybe lost a troop and would love to have another one. There are three churches in our area that have in the past chartered troops and would like to have troops again.

One thing with Lion's Clubs over all is that their membership is getting older and older. THey aren't getting young members in.

As far as equipment. Our trailor is owned by a members father on lease to the troop, $10.00 a year.

Our lanterns and stoved are on loan from parents. Our chuck boxes were made with material purchased by a parent.

We have made sure that if something happens with our CO that our equipment isn't owned by the troop.(This message has been edited by Lynda J)

[dan 10]

I was/am not sure what a CO or COR responsibilities are. I found this on www.scouting.org

 

Chartered Organization Responsibilities

By receiving a charter from the Boy Scouts of America, the chartered organization agrees to

Conduct Scouting in accordance with its own policies and guidelines as well as those of the BSA.

Include Scouting as part of its overall program for youth and families.

Appoint a chartered organization representative who is a member of the organization and will represent it to the Scouting district and council, serving as a voting member of each.

Select a unit committee of parents and members of the organization who will screen and select unit leaders who meet the organization's leadership standards as well as the BSA's standards.

Provide adequate and secure facilities for Scouting units to meet on a regular schedule with time and place reserved.

Encourage the units to participate in outdoor experiences.

 

Your Responsibilities Are Important

As a chartered organization representative, you hold a key position in Scouting. While there is honor attached to this position, it is not an "honorary" one. Your primary function is to ensure that the chartered organization's Scouting program succeeds.

The COR is head of the "Scouting department" in the organization, and as such the responsibilities of the units and leadership is ultimately the COR's responsibility.

Unit Committee

Each Scouting unit (pack, troop, team, or crew) is managed by a group of adults approved by the organization who serve as the unit committee. The committee's principal responsibility is to select the best-qualified leaders for the unit and see that they are supported in carrying out the unit program. The COR maintains a close relationship with the unit committee chairman. The goal is for the COR to report to the organization programs, needs, and successes on a regular basis. The COR also shares with the unit the desires and needs of the chartering organization. Thus, communication between the organization and its Scouting program is through the chartered organization representative.

Communication With the Council

The Boy Scouts of America, in its relationship with chartered organizations, depends on the COR to be the liaison between the local council and the organization. As the representative of the organization, you have the responsibility to share information between the council and the organization and vice versa. In fact, you are a voting member of the district and council. The council is a grassroots organization in that there are more CORs than council members at large. So the control of the council belongs to the chartered organizations.

In summary of your responsibilities, think of a three-legged stool. The legs represent the unit, the chartered organization, and the Boy Scout council and its districts. The COR is the piece that makes the stool work.

Tasks

Now that we have discussed your responsibilities, what are some particular tasks that fall into your responsibilities?

Encourage unit leaders to take training.

Promote well-planned unit programs.

Organize enough units to meet need.

Promote recruiting new youth members.

Encourage transition from one program to the next.

Assist in annual unit charter renewal.

Suggest Good Turns that benefit your organization and its community.

Encourage regular unit committee meetings.

Encourage active outdoor unit programs.

Promote earning advancement, including religious awards, and recognition of leaders.

Approve unit finance policies.

Represent your organization to the district and council.

Point out this is not an all-inclusive list, but a starting point.

 

Here is the link to the above, I hope it works, I have had problems in the past with links to the BSA website.

 

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=xx&c=ds&terms=CO&x=23&y=11

 

John-in-KC

Could you share you thoughts on the above with what you have seen?

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Dan,

 

Here you are:

 

The Chartered Organization Representative, BSA #33117,

Training the Chartered Organization Representative, BSA #34527.

The District, BSA #33079,

 

Who "Owns and Operates" a Pack, Troop, or Crew?

Official BSA documents reveal that the chartered organization owns and operates the pack or troop and is therefore responsible for its operation.

 

"The Chartered Organization Representative", published by the BSA, states with emphasis, "The Units Belong to Your Organization . . . Packs, Troops, Teams, and Posts are Owned, Operated and Administered by "Community-based

Organizations." The policy -- that the Boy Scouts do not own individual units, but are only there to serve the chartered organization -- goes back to the early days of Scouting.

 

 

Does that answer the mail?

 

There is also a squib in a Venturing powerpoint I saw that reminded leaders that a unit is not a separate entity, and that property (canoes, trailers, etc) must be registered in the name of the chartered organization.

[Lisabob 13]

Everybody's feedback thus far has been quite helpful - thanks and don't stop!

 

Lynda, actually I talked with our DE about the situation yesterday and he immediately offered to meet with the CO, either with me or on his own (as the troop prefers). He agreed that it doesn't sound like they currently understand the "benefits of chartering a troop." I do know for a fact that he hasn't met with this CO in years - he told me he doesn't know anybody in this group and I give our DE some credit for knowing almost everyone. I am hopeful that the DE's involvement will be helpful here.

 

Several people mention switching COs. I am fairly certain that if we switched COs within the next year or so, we'd lose the several thousand dollars we've raised so far to pay for a new troop trailer. They would see this as "free money" that could be spent on their other priorities and it would be their right to do so (though not very nice). I really don't wish for that to occur. On the other hand, I don't *think* they'd take the gear away from us, but I can't be certain and it is a pretty significant risk.

 

In doing some background research I too have found that the Lions in general are having a hard time generating new membership and this does seem to contribute to our communication issues in this specific instance. Nobody in this Lions group has kids in scouts, and nobody in the scout group has a clue who the Lions are. But I also found that the Lions support a very wide array of community projects and causes.

 

Among those is diabetes education, awareness, and health care. The American Diabetes Assoc. is holding a fundraising Walk for the Cure in our area in the fall, and the ADA is looking for volunteers to staff rest points,hand out snacks to participants, work the registration tables, etc.. I'm thinking this is something our scout troop could do on behalf of the Lions. It supports an issue the Lions are involved with, it is something our boys could actually do, it might raise the Lions' community profile a bit, and it doesn't require us to solicit cash donations for the Lions. If we staffed a rest area maybe we could post a sign saying that we are Boy Scout Troop XXX, chartered by the Lions Club of XXtown.

 

Any reasons you can see why this WOULDN'T be a good service project to propose that we do for the Lions? I know it isn't directly for them, but they do support the program.

 

John, you mentioned doing yard work for the Lions members. Actually I'm not opposed to this but I fear it would look like pandering. Does anybody do this sort of thing for their CO members (not the CO as an institution - for individual members)?

 

And I like Beavah's idea of sending them a report each year to let them know what we're up to. At least they'll know we exist. Will talk w/ our committee chair about that one tomorrow.

 

In fairness, while I don't think they've lived up to their end of the bargain, I also think the troop can do more to communicate with them and to express our appreciation. The other night we had our last COH of the school year (to which the Lions were invited and as always, they didn't attend). I made up programs and included a brief line saying something like "Thank you to the XXX Lions Club for chartering our troop." Several people asked about it - said it was the first time in memory that anybody had done anything like that! (Geez, and that was simple! I'm going to send them a program along with that annual report) So there's improvement to be made on both sides here.

 

Ah, sorry if this is rambling - it is the end of a very long day. Thanks again for your feedback!

 

Lisa'bob

[John-in-KC 311]

Wow, Lisa, a lot of meat on those bones.

 

As far as serving the members directly, that came from a couple of Second Class "service hour" projects I've seen. In the cases I know of, we're talking about folks who are fundamentally shut-ins. If they're older but healthy, it may not be needed.

 

Here's something my church pre-teen youth group does: Adopt-a-grandparent. Child does things actively with the older partner (and vice versa). My own son is 17 now, but his relationship with his adopted grandparents is strong and loving.

 

One of our Eagles, for his project, in the case of our chartered partner (a local VFW) did the Veteran's oral history project from the Library of Congress. Everyone has a story, and getting the story out of these folks matters.

 

I think the idea of supporting service causes and projects the Lions have interest in is good. Why give your hours elsewhere when your partner has a program that supports and fulfills the Citizenship aim of Scouting?

 

I've found Scouting, as an adult to be my "civic activity" home. There may be adults, within the Troop, who are or soon will be looking for things to do as the nest empties. Perhaps joining the Lions might be a fit. Certainly, sharing information with adults about who Lions are and what they do would be a help!

 

Here's an idea: You're fairly close to going to Scout camp for the summer now. Many camps have a Visitor's Night, some have a Visitor's Sunday (my council still has 10 day camps and thus a full day). Instead of just inviting the Lions, personally invite them and their spouses, and offer rides, to let them come and see what these youth are doing.

 

Overall, I guess the short version of what I'm writing is: Work to mingle the two generations!

 

YIS

[Beavah 205]

I am fairly certain that if we switched COs within the next year or so, we'd lose the several thousand dollars we've raised so far to pay for a new troop trailer. They would see this as "free money" that could be spent on their other priorities and it would be their right to do so (though not very nice).

 

Not very nice at all. In fact, pretty durn unethical. Most NFPs and service organizations feel it to be a moral imperative to honor the intent of the donors. In some cases, state law may require them to.

 

If this is really the sentiment, it argues more for findin' a new CO. More than the money, you want a CO that reflects the Oath and Law, eh?

 

 

[Oak Tree 15]

Can you hurry up and buy the trailer, and remove that as an issue? Does the CO even know about your troop checking account? If you have several thousand dollars saved up for a trailer, it seems like you ought to be able to go ahead and get one - depending, of course, on how nice of a trailer you're looking for.

 

Oak Tree

 

P.S. Your idea of doing service projects in line with the Lions sounds good to me.