What constitutes an "outing" and who decides?

[Hunt 11]

I started a thread in the Advancement board on what constitutes adding to a requirement, and what constitutes interpreting a requirement, to try to talk about the idea beyond the context of one particular requirement.

[anarchist 10]

Sorry long post-

 

Ed-Bingo...go to the head of the class!

 

Lisabob- camping req. 9 is very clear you may count a week...not two or three long term (summercamps)..towards the twenty days and nights the rest camping are outside of Summercamp... thus... there is a restriction...as to what "counts", and my point was if BSA can determine what can be used for credit for a merit badge, so if the attendance % is troop/CO policy...whats the fuss?

 

Ya don't agree with the way things are?, roll up those sleeves and work towards a change...but just don't expect a working (successful?) program to change just because the forum members are on your side....or some "book thumper" says its not the "BSA way"...cause ...

the BSA folks can't have it both ways...if the CO "owns" the Unit...(by BSA own words and policies)...the CO can have its own requirements for membership...

 

back in my younger days I kept hearing "love it or leave it" maybe I am finally beginning to understand...(naugh... just gas).

 

and Lisabob...beads and all, ...with all respect...you have a lot to learn about boys and Boy Scouts...My comment about "Cindy lu" was both fair and accurate...having "followed" my now 18 yr old son and six of his Webelos II den-mates through scouting (and attending 5 eagle boards this past year and many before...)I've seen it -(heck I did "it"). I have also seen young boys "bail" on a campout while loading gear in the church parking lot because it was raining "like heck" and the weather man was calling for three more days of rain...it happens! But please, Please print and clip this thread..particularly your words... put it on your mirror so you don't lose it and if you "stay the course", look at your words when your son and his "buds" are 17...wanna bet what you will find? PM me and I'll tell you...from my experience, anyway....and it won't be the "programs" fault!

 

FScouter...(sigh)...another BW type answer...look over the charter agreement... They differ very little council to council but you will find one of the COs responciblitiies is: to "conduct the scouting program according to ITS OWN POLICIES AND GUIDELINES as well as those of BSA" (FScouter-note whose policies come first? -COs...hummm) then there is the responciblity for the CO to "encourage OUTDOOR EXPERIENCES, which are vital elements of Scouting" (direct quotes, again) so if a CO takes that "requirement" "to heart" they are wrong?

 

It also states "The Council agrees to Respect the Aims and objectives of the of the organization" , so logically if a units wants to have boys "active" in an outdoor program; expecting - requiring participation is not much of a stretch...it is not adding or subtracting it is an article of membership...check and mate?

 

Once again we fall back into the "its not fair!" arguement...and as I have said before...it's the existing troops "game"...If I wanna play in it; I play by their "rules", or I can find a "better" game...or I can try to change those rules but I have to be willing to work hard and take my lumps...I can not expect to throw a "its not the BSA way" or "who are you to make those rules" tantrum and expect everyone to change for my own "gentle sensibilities".

 

I try to tell my boys to make lemonade out of the lemons you get...it is not as easy maybe as buying a bottle of minute maid but in the end it is more satisfiying.

 

last (for now) ...RedHonorScout...you are only right to a point; BSA, usually council, approves 'adjustments' for special scouts...but again NO UNIT or CO is required to accept, continue or renew membership of any scout...be it a physical, mental or 'participation' challenge...it is the CO/troops decision to allow membership not "BSA book thumpers"... and while I can not speak to scoutmoms5's troop retention rate... our membership numbers (excluding the NSP who join)usually hovers around 96%. Boys who join as NSPs (11yr olds) for the last six years- 83% age out at eighteen or Eagle out and become less active after they are seventeen...and we require 50% attendance...we also get about 60% of our NSP to first class by the time of their second summercamp...(85% of our boys take part in summercamp or high adventure camps annually - some do both.)33% of the NSP make first class by the end of their first year (March-March) Last year we lost five scouts who eagled and then aged out...three are now registered Scouters...so attendence requirements don't seem to make a big difference do they?

 

anarchist

 

and the darn shame of this subject is; not one of you would fault the high school coach for "benching" a boy for missing 50% of the practices...would you, but "scouts" is different...right? ;>)

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

yes, scouts is different, no one gets benched in scouting because they just arent good enough

[RedHonorScout 10]

Anarchist..Some good points. However, I was responding to the original poster's comments on attendance affecting advancement, not membership issues. On that point you and the many good posts I'm reading are very correct.

 

Congrats, though, on a well-run Troop but as we all learn in this program, one good data point, unfortunately, doesn't make a trend.

 

YIS....

[nldscout 18]

Can anyone show me in writing where a troop cannot set a minimum attendance policy? No you cannot. There is no reference anywhere in the books or manuals that say you cannot set a minimum.

 

We use attendance as a measure of scout spirit, not for the longevity requirement for advancement. If you cannot commit to the troop without a valid reason, then my take is your lacking in Scout Spirit.

[Lisabob 13]

Anarchist, please stop sending me any more nasty messages to my private email account. Whatever you have to say should be said on the public board or not at all. And let's keep things on topic please.

 

This is the last time I will respond to you on this topic because I didn't join this board to engage in personal argument with you or anyone else.

 

However, let me point out that a) of course I have things to learn about boy scouts - that's why I sought out this forum and have been asking a bunch of questions about what other troops do. As I've clearly stated several times, 4 of my 5 years of experience are in CUB scouting. However, that doesn't mean I am completely ignorant about everything in the boy scout program. I find your response in this thread and elsewhere to be very condescending although perhaps you didn't intend for it to come across that way.

 

b) Woodbadge has nothing to do with this - woodbadge is not designed to teach participants specifically about boy scouts; it is designed to teach participants to be excellent Scouters, regardless of what program they fall into (Cubs, Venture, and Varsity are also part of the focus of the BSA, not just Boy Scouts). I'm not sure why you felt the need to insert that comment.

 

I appreciate an exchange of views and you're welcome to disagree with me. However I am not about to get into exchanges of nasty emails or personal attacks and I appreciate it if you will likewise refrain from doing so. It isn't "scout-like."

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[dan 10]

nldscout

Can anyone show me in writing where a troop can set a minimum attendance policy? Stalemate?

I think a hard and fast attendance policy is not a good idea.

A scoutmaster should be talking to a scout if he is not at every meeting or outing without a good reason. If you have a 16 year old life scout that makes 40% of the meetings because of school work and none of the outings because of work, he is saving for college, anyone with a 30% 40% or 50% attendance policy should not advance this scout, even though, he is preparing for his future. A good SM conference can set an attendance policy that the scout can do and still be an outstanding member of the troop.

nldscouter you wrote

If you cannot commit to the troop without a valid reason.

Sounds like you and I are saying the same thing, communcating with the scouts and not using a fixed attendance policy seems like the best way to go.

I also look at any requiments that are imposed by a troop and think would the BSA agree with me if the scout went to the BSA and contested the rank advancment.

 

anarchist

do you have something against bobwhites?

 

 

[anarchist 10]

gee and gee whiz lisabob,

 

since you tarred me with the brush lets bring it out...

 

I PM'd you to inquire why in your post on a cub scout matter...you seemed to say that a pack policy was "law" but in this thread the "mentioned" troop policy (if it was ever a policy)was seemingly out of line. I used the PM method because I did not want anyone here (in "public" so to speak)to think I was trying to indicate that, perhaps, I saw some hypocracy in you positions...I was just trying to sort out,again in private, the differences in what I was reading...intwo different threads. In the future please feel free to block my responces...and sorry, I didn't mean to be nasty, I actually thought I was trying to be more like... ah, discrete...and honorable.

 

and condescending? hardly...perhaps exasperated with parents of young scouts who think the bright sparkle of scouting as seen in the eyes of an eleven year old just has to continue unabated for the next seven or eight years or there must be a problem with some poor twits program and with yet another example of how we in these forums are so quick to find fault with programs we have no real information on...

 

but then I am not the one who started her post saying about a CC opinion/policy; she didn't know how he "could get away with it" and the policy was "nuts"...when, it according to the original post it was a CC stating his opinion in a troop committee meeting (not at a BoR)and not and as far as the post went it wasn't a stated as a troop policy...The committee is the place to hash out opinions and develop with the COs direction the policies or philosophy the troop will operate under...

 

and beads comment...simply my version of your "with due respect" I am not the one denoting woodbadge with every post, now am I? oop, sorry guess that wasn't scout like either, huh?

 

RedHonorScout-as Ed said...it's not easy to advance if you are not a member of the troop...participation as a CO policy could be a membership requirement and it would stop advancement...but IMO with out adding or subtracting....just a point of fact nothing more...

 

nuff said

 

Anarchist