CNYScouter 46 Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Why? I have been told numerous times that I should be associating myself with people who think the same way I do about the Scouting program I havent been able to find these people at the unit level for troops in my area nor have I met anyone at my Districts Roundtable except my DE. It seems the only time I have met people who think the same way I do about the Scouting program have been at council training events as staff or here on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites
Kahuna 172 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I think the answer to that is somewhat like Justice Stevens' comment about pornography: "I can't define [what a Scouter is], but I know [one] when I see [one]." They come in all shapes and sizes, but they all have the best interests of kids at heart. Some of them don't follow the program as published in the latest BSA training materials. Some of them wear uniforms that don't meet the current standards (especially true in Sea Scouting), and they don't all think the same way I do, but they have Scouting in their souls. Link to post Share on other sites
CNYScouter 46 Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 If they don't follow the program how can they have Scouting in their souls? Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 If they don't follow the program how can they have Scouting in their souls? Define following the program. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
CNYScouter 46 Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Following the Program: Using (or supporting the use of) the 8 methods of Scouting to achieve the 3 Aims of Scouting. One of the first things taught in SM Leader Specific Training: "If you're not using the methods you're not achieving the aims" Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 ... and if you're not acheiving the aims, you're not fulfilling the mission. And therein defines a "Scouter". If you're not fulfilling the mission, you're not doing Scouting. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Agree. Maybe I'm missing something here. One who has the best interest of the Scouts at heart would be following the methods to achieve the aims. But just following the methods to achieve the aims doesn't necessarily have the best interests of the Scouts at heart. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Ed, I have missed your circumelocution. So, if you have the best interests of the scouts at heart, its ok not to follow the methods? I don't see what you mean as yet. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 "One who has the best interest of the Scouts at heart" sounds all warm and fuzzy but what does that mean? The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes. Using the methods to acheive the aims and fulfill the mission is what Scouting is all about. How does that not "have the best interests of the Scouts at heart"?? Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 It might be all warm & fuzzy but that's the way I have always felt. And it means exactly what it says. I am involved in Scouting for the Scouts not myself. And I have done & will continue to do what is in the best interest of the Scouts in my unit. And if I stray from the Methods & Aims while doing this, so be it. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 So, when did you ever stray from the Methods and Aims to keep the best interest of the youth at heart? Has it ever happened or are you saying your regard for the youth would supplant the Aims and Methods, but is hasnt happened yet? Link to post Share on other sites
LongHaul 10 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Ive sat back and watched this thread develop waiting to see where it would go. Nldscout, WB new or old is a tool. I think the old course was more Scouting oriented and it prepared participants better to provide the Scouting Program than does the new course which is more team building and leadership oriented. Neither course produces Scouters, as SueM posted its the people not the course. I did notice your use of the terms other course and present course which are used in the New and Improved Woodbadge for the 21st. Century. I think referring to a training course with 90 plus years of tradition and results as the other course says something about the attitude of the designers of the current version. If we choose to pursue that discussion I would suggest spinning off another thread. evmori posts define following the program I think this should be spun off into another thread, and I think when finished here I will. Most agree that one of the traits of a Scouter is belief in the Scouting program( which we will define elsewhere). Can we agree that being a Scouter also requires that one live by the Oath and Law in their daily life or can you be a Scouter when around scouts and not a Scouter at other times and still be a Scouter? LongHaul Link to post Share on other sites
SueM 10 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 You know.. this doesn't answers any questions, but the older I've gotten, the more I've come to realize that life is not strictly Black & White anymore! We sometimes have to be flexible with things and make some consessions at times too. Every week, when we recite the Scout oath, we say "On my honor I will -DO MY BEST-" to follow those principles...doesn't mean that neither I nor the boys have to be perfect, or that we'll never make a personal misjudgment or mistake..we're all human after all, but we still try to do the best that we can and learn from those mistakes and do better next time. I believe that we all do our best to TRY to deliver the program as closely as possible, but sometimes things just don't work as they should no matter how hard you try..I don't think that makes anyone a bad scouter any more than making a personal mistake does!! sue m. Link to post Share on other sites
Kahuna 172 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 . . . how can they have Scouting in their souls? Oh, sorry, yes I just lost my head for a moment. You're right, if the BSA decides tomorrow that the uniform should be tangerine with purple piping, I would either rush out and buy it or be a totally worthless ex-Scouter, wouldn't I? If you re-read my post it says as published in the latest BSA guidlines. Some of us are old enough and wise enough to have been in Scouting under varied guidlines. Guidlines change. If you have Scouting in your soul, that doesn't change. ie, if I wear my old uniform from 1960 (which there is no danger of, it shrunk), does that mean I don't have Scouting in my soul?(This message has been edited by Kahuna) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 So, when did you ever stray from the Methods and Aims to keep the best interest of the youth at heart? We don't require the Scouts to own the official uniform pants. That is straying from the uniform method. Does this help keep the best interests of the Scouts at heart? I don't know. Never really thought about it. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
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