Outrageous registration fees

[SR540Beaver 116]

I've never been one to pass up a fundraiser. I can easily pay for my son's activities out of my pocket and not bother with the time and effort that goes into fundraising, but I don't. A scout is thrifty and pays his way. The lesson is too important to pass up. We are doing the boys a disservice when we pony up for them. That being said, sometimes you simply get worn out from all the fundraising. Around here, the schools have an annual fundraiser. The sports teams do too. Then there is scout popcorn and if you don't make enough, you have the possibility of a second fundraiser. Add in something like Jambo and you are looking at another fundraiser. After a while it becomes too much. Your family and friends hate to see you coming with another piece of paper in hand asking for money. My wife will take our son's popcorn to work and nothing else. Many of the people she supervises make just a little over minimum wage. She worries that they feel obligated to buy from the boss's kid. She doesn't want to subject them to that more than once a year. Some families decide to draw a line. For some, that is the fundraiser that is most important to them. To others, it is no fundraiser at all and they just want to write a check. Each fundraising organization looks at it in a vacuum. They never consider how many times the same kid is asked to wander the neighborhood asking the same people over and over to buy something. Most fundraisers happen around the same time of year and kids do one on the heels of another. I tend to like the show and sell fundraisers because the boys don't have to go door to door (which some hate) and they are not having to hit the same people over and over again. We need to be a little more innovative in our fundraising. The Jambo fundraiser I organized was first aid kits. I wanted to get away from the traditional food products so it would stand out from other products. I wanted an item that didn't need specialized storage requirements like refrigeration. I also did it during a time of year when others were not doing fundraisers. For those who put any effort into it, it was a successful fundraiser. What I'd like our troop to try out sometime is to do a first aid show and sell with small kits. I'd like to target baseball and soccer tournaments. Back when my son was playing sports, hundreds if not thousands of people came thru the gates for tournaments. Everyone (especially athletes)can use a small first aid kit in their gear bag. There are usually multiple tournaments going on each weekend of the season. Split the boys up at different tournaments and have them work the table in shifts. I think it would potentially rival any other fundraiser you could do. That is the kind of innovation I think people need to consider. There would be a minimal effort involved as compared to a month long door to door campaign.

 

Whew, that was long. I'm going to take a break.

[anarchist 10]

MONEY is nearly always a problem! Good programs cost money! Recharter plus insurance plus Boys Life (for 100% unit credit)is about $20.00 none of this is pack money it all flies away to councile etc. This then allows for $115 for patches and activities, various kits (pine wood, rain gutter boats etc.)

 

Blue and gold can get pricy for food and a 'hall' if needed. Depending on activities its hard for a unit to plan and reserve space for 40 kids and have 20 parents decide that their son can't go...the other 20 boys/families get dumped on...

Unfortunately fund raising (like life) is not always a fair...our unit is looking at dues/membership fees because it seems the same families support the program every year and the other 'same ol' families' always have something better to do on fund raising efforts (and by that, appear to become freeloaders). This creates hard feelings and the a "sign up, pay up or go home," policy is looking more and more appealing to us.

This is not to say a true hard-ship we would not find a way for the boy to participate, we have already set guidelines if we go down this path... but in many instances it seems to a case of $125 per pair sneaker clad boy (and Family) wanting to cut costs while junior seems have money for three different sports teams and the movies and his martial arts class...which is a no go...

In the end; $115 boils down to $10.50 to $12.50 dollars per month for a 9-11 month program...a bargain in my book....

I second the sentiment about not letting the boy participate if he "does not deserve it". We sometimes have to do that as parents but the unit should not bear that cost (increase) the parent should...as my daddy used to say..."son this hurts me more than it does you".... maybe just maybe, sometimes, he was right.

 

and finally...pinewood...if you are not a member in good standing you do not participate...period...why would you expect everyone else to 'pay to play' and not your sisters step son?

[EagleInKY 14]

But what is a unit to do if a family just refuses to pay? How would you suggest they enforce payment of dues? Pinewood Derby kits and trophies cost the pack money. It's one thing if a boy's registration is current, but how long are they to wait at recharter time?

 

Arachist stole my answer. Our recharter is in January, Pinewood Derby is in February. If we recharter with you based upon the fact that "you're good for it", then you have to pay before Pinewood Derby. It's just that simple. If someone is having financial difficulty, we'll allow them to pay partial now and then the balance later.

 

I agree that $100+ is a reasonable amount per boy to run a pack. However, I still disagree with a "like it or leave it" attitude. Provide fund raising with scout accounts to make it fair for all. But that doesn't mean freeloaders get a pass.

[ScoutNut 147]

IF the $135 was a PACK fee which paid Nat'l reg, insurance, recharter, patches and awards along with the other stuff I could ALMOST understand it. However, that is NOT what it sounds like.

 

Also, mandatory pre-paying for outside activites like a hayride and hockey game is nuts. Why force your families to either attend an activity or pay even though you know you can't go? We have done both events and neither required reservations that far ahead that we did not have time to ask who wanted to go. I can see the Pack requiring pre-payment of entry fees to reserve a spot, but only from those who want to go, and not months and months in advance.

 

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[ScoutMomAng 10]

I asked the same questions about fundraising. She said they do them but nobody has said what that money is used for. Like I said, I am a Webelos leader myself in Florida. My pack's budget is also about the same for every boy. And I am on our comittee. My sister is probably not on the committee for her step son, however they are just a new family so that was probably not something in the plans of the creating the family. I'm sure it will be this year though. Our pack would NEVER deny a boy from participating in any event. Of course our pack would NEVER set up an outrageous fee either. Our annual PACK dues are $20.00 per boy. That helps to offset the cost of awards, belt loops, rank etc. We use our popcorn to the FULLEST extent. As a matter of fact I am the Popcorn Kernal! I have challenged each boy to sell $600.00 worth of popcorn, to help cover our budget and make an entire year of scouting FREE for every boy. I don't anticipate we will get there but we have things on the list that will get knocked off first. I broke down exactly what my sister said the $135.00 was for. None of it covered camping, none of it covered the pinewood derby or anything related it to it. It covered things that should be a pay as you go thing in my opinion. (Hay ride, hockey game, and other "trips") What if the boy happens to be with his mother the weekends of the trips? His mother isn't going to take him so that means his dad and step mom have shelled out money for an activity that he won't get to go on because mom didn't feel it was important. I think the money should cover things like advancements, new book when he advances to the next rank. I'm not trying to make excuses for NOT paying the money, I think since the fee has been set it's pretty much a done deal with the exception that he re-registered at the end of last year for this year and the new fees were not imposed on them until late September (after school started), and by that time they had already had plans for the weekend of the Hay Ride so that amount should be omitted from the cost. My biggest concern was that it states actually on their form "If the fees are not paid in full by 1 January 2005, the boy may NOT participate in the Pinewood Derby". I think that is unfair. Everyboy should have the opportunity to race in the pinewood derby. He surely won't get to do it when he is a Boy Scout.

[ScoutMomAng 10]

ScoutNut! Thanks for totally understanding! The fees are Den dues, and NOT pack dues. There was NOTHING about Pack Dues, which I mentioned to my sister.

 

And I agree with Anarchist that $10 to $12 a month for an entire year is not bad either. However it does not boil down to that when it comes to paying it. It was sprung on them in Late September to be paid by the first of January. That gives 4 months to pay $135.00 with Christmas and Thanksgiving rolled in there too.

 

I also agree that the boy should have to pay for Pinewood derby costs, I never said he shouldn't. I did say, however, to include the cost of a hay ride and hockey game in the fees, then deny Pinewood derby if they are not paid upfront is ridiculous.

 

Our pack has to recharter by November 9th. But the cost of rechartering is nowhere near $135.00. My Webelos II are only paying a total cost of $25.80 and that covers the national fee, pack dues (only $5.00 because they will be leaving soon for Boy Scouts) and Boys Life, which is totally optional. As a comittee person on MY pack's committee I would never agree to having somebody pay the cost of trips in the registration. If the boy is going to attend those events then they should be paid far enough in advance that the pack can reserve space and prepurchase tickets if need be. I'm not saying he should be given a free ride but what the heck are they using the popcorn money for?????? He's selling it. As for buying popcorn, I have 2 of my own boys in the pack and from both of them I buy the $50.00 tin. That's $100.00 worth of popcorn! Every year I say, "I have no idea what we will do with this much popcorn" but it is always gone before I know it. I myself could afford to pay the $135.00 for my sister, however I won't until they break it down and take off things that he will not participate in or has no way of knowing if he will participate.

 

I also agree with the "Son, this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you..." but sometimes that doesn't always work. I know from experience.

[fotoscout 15]

Forced participation.I kind of like it!!!

 

Sure Id be a little insulted by it, but lets face it, how often do you go through the exercise of setting up an outing for lets say 50 people, and only 10 or 15 sign up to go. Then those 10-15 wait until the last minute to shell over the money. If you want to be a Cub Scout then be a Cub Scout and participate in the Packs adventures.

 

I understand this one, and I kind of like it. The committee is saying, this is what we do, if you want to be a part of our program here it is, if you dont like it, youre welcome to join a different Pack!

 

As for the $135, I don think its high. We charge $72 per year for retuning scouts, and that only includes den dues, registration, boys life, and awards. All of our other expenses are funded from the Popcorn Fundraiser. But I must tell you that I am becoming quite fed up with paying for people who dont participate in the fundraiser! This year I've seen the ultimate insult, we have a couple of families that bought one $15 box of popcorn each. Yes, they undestood the importance of the fundraiser, and still they insult us with this kind of response. Of course they'll also be the first one's in line for freebee paid for by the Pack.

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[ScoutNut 147]

Ang - As I said before, have your sister contact the Pack Treasurer and get a copy of their financials. If they are selling popcorn on top of this fee then she needs to see just what is what. Maybe a good idea would be to go to the next Committee meeting!

 

Sorry Foto, I do not like forced participation and do not see the need for it under any circumstances. Yes we have planned for 40 and got 10 at activites, but when you know there is a chance of only getting 10 you can plan for 40, but not commit for 40. If we need to put money down in advance we tell families that they have until such and such date to get us their money. No money then they are not included in the reservation. When we have to purchase a block of tickets in order to qualify for the lowest price we figure how many went last time & how many we will be willing to eat and order accordingly. It can be done.

 

My Pack pays for everything thru the popcorn sale (Kernal here too!) and does not charge any Pack dues at all. Knowing that is possible, I would have a real problem paying a Pack that much without finding out what is what.

[fotoscout 15]

The more I think about this, the less insulted I would feel about it.

 

Last week I signed my son up for Little League, $95 for the season. April, May and June, oh yeah, it includes a tee shirt. He does Karate, $250 every three months, and lets not forget swimming lessons, $65 every three months. So what is there to be concerned with for a year round program that costs only $135?

 

I know weve had this discussion before, but I think it always warrants repeating! To those who think scouting is too expensive, I challenge you to have participation in the program at somewhere around a 90%-100% level. Come back to us in a year and let us know if you got your moneys worth. Ill bet that youll be ranting about the bargain you got!

 

[ScoutMomAng 10]

foto---that is ASSUMING (and you know what they say about people who assume) that the pack actually does go year around. Remember, I said he re-registered in late December and they didn't know anything about the "New" pack fees until Late September.

 

I don't like forced participation either. If you get the information out to the parents and you let them know what is involved, how much money is involved, when you need it, etc. and then they don't jump on the band wagon then there is nothing they can say.

 

As far as fundraisers, maybe your participation in accordance with your presentation??? The first year my son was a cub scout we only had about 10 boys participate in the popcorn sales. EVERYBODY seen how it affected the boys. The second year we had about 15 boys participate. The third year I took over as popcorn Kernal because my husband seen what I did with Girl Scout cookies for two years and he thought my presentation would help. That year we still only had about 25 boys out of 50 participate but we increased our sales by more than 50%! This year, I anticipate the same thing. Our sales aren't done yet because we were affected by Hurricane Ivan which delayed our program but I still anticipate a good outcome.

 

 

[fotoscout 15]

Actually we do well enough with our Popcorn sale, and participation is generally acceptable. Its the people on the fringe that are starting to bother me.

 

September - - - December, seems to me that there is enough time here to make an informed decision.