My Dilemma

[Eamonn 61]

For those who don't know my only child is a 16 going on 17 year Scout.

OJ,is at an age where there are a lot of doors or opportunities open to him. He is still active in his troop, at present he serves as the SPL.He is active in the OA, I think if the truth were to be told he likes the OA far better than the troop. He is serving his second term as a Vice Chief, he would like to be Chief and after returning from NLS last year has said that National Chief is something that he would like to try for.

I have tried very hard not to interfere with his Boy Scout career. I like to think that I have been supportive and allowed him to follow his own path. He has been a Life Scout for a very long time and has everything done except for the Leadership Project and what follows after it.

From where I see I like his view on Scouts and Scouting and I believe that he is a good kid. Next year he opted not to attend the Jamboree as a Troop member, instead signed up to go as a staff member. I admit to being a little hurt, I was looking forward to spending that time with him and I thought that he would have had a good shot at becoming the SPL. I kept my feelings to myself. I kept reminding myself about Wings and Roots.

He then came up with the idea of being part of the OA Trail Crew at Philmont next year. Her That Must Be Obeyed , does have a very deep fear of him flying by himself, but we were willing to find a way of him getting there somehow.

About a month ago he came home and said that a troop that is in our Council, but not in our District had an opening and had invited him to join their Philmont Crew.

I do know the Leaders of this troop, and much as I hate to say it I don't like them. They are a strange bunch. I suppose if I were to stick a label on them, which I know is very wrong of me!! I would label them Rebels. I had the Scoutmaster in the Owl Patrol, when he took Wood Badge I was his Coach Counselor. Everything this troop does seems to be based on their trips to Philmont. It is like the rest of the Scout program doesn't exist just these trips. While I know it is not the be all and end all, but the Scoutmaster wears this hat with a big feather hanging from it. It looks like a crow feather. It annoys the heck out me.

I was hoping that the dates wouldn't be right, but they are fine and the cost is lower than what the Council contingent has for 2006.

I am just not sure if I want OJ hanging out with these guys. They don't do anything that could be classed as wrong. I just don't want their idea of Scouting to rub off on OJ. He will be 17 or almost 17 when they go. I feel sure that he will have a good time and enjoy himself. I don't know if I'm being over protective? Or if what I'm trying to protect is something that I should.

Maybe I'm questioning OJ and the strength of his values? Or maybe I'm not being fair to the leaders. I know that I like Philmont, but the Scout program offers a lot more than just trips to Philmont.

As if to make matters worse I have this rule, where I don't ever put down other adults in front of OJ. I think that he needs to respect all adults just because they are adults. If they mess up with him, or before him that's their fault. So if I'm not going to allow him to go how would I tell him?

I along with Her Who Must Be Obeyed, are what might be called "Strict Parents", we do not and never have had a problem saying No. Or refusing him. So that isn't the problem.

Should I allow him to go and wait and see?

Should I refuse him and not give a reason?

This invite has just about killed his interest in the OA Trail-crew.

Any ideas?

Eamonn

[dsteele 20]

Eamonn:

 

You know I'm not a parent. I don't give advice as a parent. But I do give advice as a Scout leader.

 

OJ will be 17 when he attends the trip. He already has his own opinion of how Scouting should work. This vision of his is probably largely, but not entirely, based on the vision you have given him as a father and a Scout leader yourself.

 

I say you let him go on the trip. For good or ill, with OJ, your parenting is 90% done.

 

Easy for me to say . . . I'm not his Dad.

 

Unc.

[FScouter 24]

It sounds like you're doubting yourself. A parent is obligated to say "NO" to those things their kid wants, when those things will not positively influence the kid's learning and upbringing. There is no reason for him to not know that there are even Scouters that don't meet the high standards you set for him.

 

After he is 18 there will be plenty of opportunities for him to meet and interact with people and activities which are wrong or bad and with which you won't approve. And after he is 18 you will not be able to say "NO". He will make his judgments about those future opportunities based on what he learns from you now.

 

Consider that he may already "know" this is not the troop he should get connected with, and without speaking, is looking for your guidance.

 

My son was part of an OA trail crew last year. He says it was the best thing he's done in Scouting. Have your son look at this video. Then watch him clear his calendar for an OA Trail Crew.

http://www.oa-bsa.org/programs/tcrew/oatcflash.htm

[Eagledad 2779]

Hi Eamonn

 

Without a threat of what you would want, have you asked his opinion of these leaders? I believe that the hardest part of parenting is how to get your kids to do what you want without telling to do what you want. Instead, of holding your fears and concerns, ask him his opinions of the situation and the adults involved, you might be amazed. If you aren't satisfied, express your concerns. Then just sit back and see how he responds.

 

The hard part is doing this without sounding judgemental or intimidating. Talk with him as an adult who needs on more opinion and lets see where that goes.

 

Parenting is so hard. I am amazed that we volunteer for the job.

 

God bless your whole family.

 

Barry

[evmori 11]

Eamonn,

Being a parent, I know what you are going through. If you have that many doubts, then I say go with your gut & the answer is No. Usually your gut is correct.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagle1973 10]

Eamonn, have you asked your son what are his goals in Scouting? And then how his plans would affect his goals?

 

I've had success when you make them think it's their idea.

[KoreaScouter 13]

Eamonn;

 

Trust your instincts and your experience. If there's something, even intangible, about this outing that moved you enough to begin a thread, it must be significant.

 

Your son is 16. He may be near fully grown physically, but he's still a teenage boy, with all the hormonal surges, judgment issues, adolescent "immortality", and so on. This creates a decision-making vacuum that dads have to fill.

 

It may seem draconian, but I will "de-select" little KS's friends for him if it's warranted and he seems un-inclined to do it on his own. I will filter his activities if one looks like it'll be trouble. I have parental filters set on the computer, look closely at what he's reading, prohibit some TV shows and some channels altogether, and set limits on video game play. Don't get me wrong, I don't run a monastery -- he plays sports, hangs out with his buds, has sleepovers, etc. I just remember my teenage years and how one bad influence or one mistake could have had a big impact on how I turned out. I know that he sometimes thinks I'm too strict, or too cautious. That's fine, I have a thick skin. And if I'm going to err, it'll be on the side of caution. At the end of the day, he knows I make my parenting decisions out of love and concern for him, and we continue to have a very strong relationship.

 

Once he's grown and on his own, the decisions are his. Until then, I have the final veto. It's not a "my way or the highway" thing; we freely communicate, and I can always back up my decisions with real life examples, in some cases from our own family. And, I always offer alternatives: different activities, different people, different places, different plans. When he was little, I was raising a boy; now, I'm developing a man.

 

To answer your question, I'd refuse based on what you told us, but give him the reason. He's probably old enough to share your opinions and insights with him. Big teaching moment opportunity here.

 

Good Luck...

 

KS

[SR540Beaver 116]

E,

 

I agree with most of the other posters. Telling OJ your perception of this group can be done in a non-judgemental way. You don't have to put them down, just express your experience with them and your concerns. Tell him he already has a great grasp of Scouting and you are concerned that their version of it might influence him adversely. My son is only 11, but very mature. I've heard the sermon a million times about letting a boy chose his troop. He was leaning heavily towards going to a different troop than the rest of his Webelos friends. He is fast at making friends, so moving to a troop where he knew no one was only a minor concern to me. My greatest problem with the troop he was leaning towards was the SM's wife. She is the advancement chair and she wears the pants in the troop. She has no problem bossing the boys around and if you ever get on her bad side, you stay there forever. He was looking at it strictly from a boy's perspective about hanging out with a bunch of other scouts. I was looking at it from a perspective that they have a very limited concept of a boy run troop and this lady causing advancement problems for boys she doesn't like. I didn't call her names or put her down. I just explained to him what my concerns were and he decided to go with the rest of his buddies. I have no problem telling my son NO, but I very seldom invoke the "because I said so" fine print clause in the parent/child contract. I try to have valid reasons. This drives my "her who must be obeyed" crazy sometimes. LOL She is from the "because I said so" school.

[ozemu 10]

Eamonn,

 

I think that you are writing to the wrong people here.

 

Maybe just print out your initial post and give it to OJ.

 

I couldn't see anything in it that would hurt him. Even if he decides to go he would know your concerns, would be prepared and aware.

 

And he would appreciate again that he has a great dad.

 

My dad died when I was 19. I wish I could have had his advice and opinion on so many ocassions over the first decade of his death. Now I just wish I could chat and show him my wife and kids.

 

OJ probably will value (if not agree with) your counsel for many years to come. Again - the warning should at least leave him with his eyes and ears open. That is how we can protect our loved ones when we are not with them.

[kenk 11]

ozemu,

 

He sees your wife and kids just fine ... and he can hear you. Don't stop talking to your Dad just because you can't see him.

 

 

Eamonn,

 

I don't have much more advice than already given. OJ will have to make his decision - with your guidance. Unfortunately, rebels are attractive to a 17 year old. Make sure he knows what the right thing to do is.