Unjust revocations

[Bob White 20]

evmori

 

I am confused on you stand on the issue at hand. Are you saying that you are against the BSA or local council from removing membership from a Scouter whose behavior becomes a nuisance?

[evmori 11]

Bob,

Yes I know one volunteers to join the military. But when you join, you sign up for x years & you get a paycheck. If you leave because you don't like it you will be arrested for being AWOL.

 

Now, one joins the BSA as a volunteer. That's where the similarity ends. No paycheck & the volunteer can leave whenever they want without worrying about being arrested.

 

Like I said before, bad example.

 

Tell me, Bob, what exactly do you see as the issue at hand and where is your confusion?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

evmori,

Are you saying that you are against the BSA or local council from removing membership from a Scouter whose behavior becomes a nuisance?

 

The issue at hand according to the title of the thread is unjust revocation.

 

Are you saying that you are against the BSA or local council from removing membership from a Scouter whose behavior becomes a nuisance?

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori 11]

Bob,

I would be elated to clear up your confusion!

 

But 1st, would you please clarify "behavior becomes a nuisance"?

 

Thanks

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

If their behavior interferes with the delivery of the program...

[evmori 11]

Based on the strict definition of interfere "To be or create a hindrance or obstacle" I would be in favor of the BSA removing someone. That said, voicing one's opinion doesn't fit the the definition I posted of interfere. Opinions don't create a hindrance or obstacle. Neither does asking for explanations.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

But Ed who do you know was thrown out for just disagreeing?

 

It's not disagreeing that got anyones membership revokoked. It was how and to whom they protested.

 

So if you agree that that under certain conditions the council or BSA cann revoke membership than it is not a matter of the BSA being unjust but of the individual protesting in a an unproductive manner.

 

Do you agree with that?

 

 

 

[Kahuna 172]

I must admit to a little confusion about exactly where Bob draws the line on disagreement with policy. At what point, exactly, does ones disagreement become so egregious as to require us, ethically, to withdraw. I mean, obviously, if you don't like the change in the First Class requirements you can grumble but go forward. Obviously, if you disagree with the premise that scouting is for the purpose of instilling character and citizenship in youth, you probably should go elsewhere.

 

I certainly disagree with many of the policies of the United States government. I express these through letters to the editor and to elected politicians. If things were bad enough, I might carry a sign to protest. Does that make me a bad citizen? Should I move to England or Germany?

 

I'm sorry, BW, but your position just does not make any sense to me. I fully admit I don't know enough about the individual situations to make informed decisions about how these dissenters earned being thrown out, but I have seen enough to make me curious. It certainly seems prudent to me to discuss these things anonymously among a group of experienced Scouters. I just don't see your point. I do see that you have a strong idea of loyalty and that you fully support the BSA. You also are very knowledgeable. But I don't think you are qualified to judge whether another Scouter should leave the program over disagreements with policy. Especially if such Scouter is performing a service and delivering the BSA program, perfectly or imperfectly.

[Bob White 20]

I haven't judged anyone.

 

I have supported the BSA right to decide.

[evmori 11]

But Ed who do you know was thrown out for just disagreeing?

 

Actually, Bob, the only person I know who was tossed was someone who decided to fornicate with a female camp counselor.

 

It's not disagreeing that got anyones membership revokoked. It was how and to whom they protested.

 

Well if someone got tossed for disagreeing with someone then they got tossed for disagreeing.

 

So if you agree that that under certain conditions the council or BSA cann revoke membership than it is not a matter of the BSA being unjust but of the individual protesting in a an unproductive manner.

 

Define "protesting in a an unproductive manner".

 

Do you agree with that?

 

Depends on you definition of "protesting in a an unproductive manner".

 

I haven't judged anyone.

 

This year?

 

Bob, Please please (and I mean this in the nicest way) get a spell checker!

 

Kahuna,

I think Bob's position is "If the BSA says so, it's right."

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bob White 20]

Ed are we really going to have to debate what "is" is?

 

You do not know anyone who has ever been removed simply for disagreeing. That is because it hasn't happened. There have been a very small number of volunteers whose personal behavior has interferred with the ability of the council to operate effectively and they had their membership revoked.

 

Do you believe that the BSA should be allowed to remove a volunteers membership?

 

And if someone wants to know what I think I have always been perfectly willing to discuss it with them myself. There is no need for you to speak for anyone other than Ed.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori 11]

Do you believe that the BSa should be allowed to remove a volunteers membership?

 

Why? They are too tall? They don't shower? Or just because?

 

No I don't want you define "is". But your definition of "protesting in a an unproductive manner" could be completely different than mine & I want to be sure I understand what your point is. Up to now, I'm not sure.

 

And let me ask you, Bob, do you feel the BSA should be able to remove a volunteer & if so for what reason(s)?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[Bob White 20]

We might be getting closer here Ed, What you think are good reasons and what i think ar godd reasons DOES NOT MATTER.

 

It is not your organization or mine. It is not your role or resonsibility to make the decision. The question is should the BSa be able to remove a volunteer? Absolutely. If they can't then who can. It's their organization we are VOLUNTEERS in it.

 

The reasons are whatever reasons they choose, they have the right to set their rules. You can evict someone from your home for whatever reason you want. No one else's opinion matters because its not their house.

 

Volunteers do not OWN the BSA organization they volunteer to help deliver the BSA's program.

 

Would you agree with the statement that you joined voluntarily and if you don't like the rules leave?

 

The BSA can do what it likes if I don't like it I can leave, if they don't like me they make me leave. Based on my experience in over thirty years in the program the BSA has made very few mistakes and they have been minimal in nature. They have earned my trust.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori 11]

Hey Kahuna! I was right! Bob's position is "Because the BSA said so".

 

So, Bob, if the BSA decides to remove you because you use the handle Bob White on message forums, that's OK with you?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

See Ed you are not reading clearly. It is not because they said so. it is because it is their organization to control as they see fit.

 

Would it be alright if they chose to revoke my membership because I sign my posts Bob White? Do you really think that would happen? Do you know of anyone that the BSA has ever done that to? Do you know of any time when the BSA asked anyone not to do use the name Bob White? Do the words Bob White interfere with the deliver of the program. To your knowledge have I ever I done anything to interfere with the program? Why should I even think about the BSA revoking my membership.

 

No, I am sure if that happened I would not be happy BUT I am confident that the BSA would never do that. But if they did they have the authority and the right todo so. I would not go whining on a public forum about someone excercising thier right to operate their organization in a legal manner.

 

So do you agree that like it or not the BSA has the right to revoke memberships based on their own criteria whatever they choose that to be.

 

Do you agree with the statement that 'you knew the rules coming in and if you do not like them you can leave?'