denied application

[roadwatchr 10]

I'm a comittee chair for a venture crew and I gave out an application to a new leader,which was not returned to me or the charter partner for signature,but filed though our local council. Our council denied this application because of prior convictions.In talking with this new leader I was told that he could appeal but he was told it could take up to 8weeks to appeal. He squawked to national and was reinstated as a venture crew leader,by our local council.Any suggestions on my next step or should I leave it alone?

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Some questions. What were the convictions for? How long ago were they?

 

[KoreaScouter 13]

Unit leaders have to be approved by the Chartered Organization. Your council can't jam one down the CO's throat. You operate the Crew as a youth program for your CO, not for the council. If your council insists on registering this person as a volunteer leader, let them register him in a council position.

 

I'm not interested in what he was convicted of. It may have been as minor as jaywalking or spitting on the sidewalk, but his behavior in doing an end run around the unit leadership and CO to hide his background indicates character problems that, by itself, sets off alarm bells.

 

Have you met with your COR or IH about this yet?

 

KS

[nldscout 18]

Ask council to see the origonal application. Someone had to sign the blocks for COR and CC. Maybe it was forged? Maybe the COR did sign it and don't remeber. But someone must have signed it.

[evmori 11]

It's still up to the CO if they want this guy as a leader.

 

I, too, would like to know what he was convicted of!

 

By the way, welcome to the campfire roadwatchr.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[Bob White 20]

Forget trying to find out what he was convicted of it is unimportant if you as the Commitee Chair did not sign his application then it is inavalid. The BSA can determine his eligibility to hold membership but he still requires two unit signatures to register. Specifically he needs yours, and either the Charter Organization Representative or the Institutional Head.

 

If you never signed then call the coucil office and tell them that the application is invalid. If you presigned your applications, bad idea.

 

But it is never too late. The COR or IH can revoke unit membership at will, or you can wait until the annual rechartering and remove him from the roster then. Either way the council has no authority to interfere.

 

Just for the record the whole thing sounds odd. I have never met a council registrar that accepted an adult aplication without the required signatures, council and nation take revocation of membership seriously and rarely reverse a decision.

 

Bob White

[NeilLup 13]

Hello Roadwatchr,

 

Please let me lay out what I think you said happened.

 

You gave out the application to the person.

 

The application was submitted to the local council without your approval or that of the chartered organization.

 

At that point, the person was rejected for "prior convictions."

 

From what I know of the BSA process, there is some puzzling business here. Unless there was a CORI check in your council, just being convicted of a crime does not automatically disqualify.

 

Did the person list these convictions on their adult application? I believe there is a place for those. Was a CORI check done? If so, then it makes some sense. If not, and the matter popped up because of the person being on the BSA's ineligible to register list, that is a very formal thing with opportunity to appeal before one goes on it permanently and much formality before one would go off.

 

However, what sometimes happens is that the person's name comes back as being on the list, but upon checking, it is a different person on the list. Then, of course, there is no problem.

 

However, for the council to process the application, there must have been signatures. That suggests that if you didn't sign it, somebody did. Potentially ugly business there.

 

I would suggest that you run, not walk to your local council Scout Executive (in this case, probably not your District Executive nor one of the support staff) and lay out the facts as you understand them to be. A phone call laying out the facts to the SE is OK too, but I would suggest that you document what you said. I would talk to the SE as soon as you get this message. You will NOT be bothering the SE and, in fact, looking into this kind of thing is one task which is uniquely assigned to the SE. Ask the SE to look into the situation and report back to you what he/she found out.

 

I don't want to speculate on what the reasons might be for this situation. Many are innocent, some are not.

 

Until you get the report from the SE, I would suggest that you (as Committee Chairman) and/or your Chartered Organization contact the person and tell them that their participation as Crew Advisor is suspended temporarily until you understand exactly what happened in their registration process. Again, ths situation probably is innocent, but I could give some cases I know about where the situation ended up not being innocent.

[roadwatchr 10]

I will be going to my council this afternoon to set up a meeting with the SE,myself,and the Field Exec. that gave the ok. I do also feel that I need to see the orig.app., if just to clearify exactly what is going on. Will let you know what I find out. Thanks for the input.

[dsteele 20]

Sorry I wasn't there to help you. Took a vacation day. I'm glad to find that the forums gave the right answer without me.

 

Of course, the down side is if you guys keep doing that, I won't be needed

 

Dave

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Of course, the down side is if you guys keep doing that, I won't be needed"

 

That's okay, you're moving to Chilli, Guacamole, some other food related country.

[roadwatchr 10]

Just wanted to let everyone know my findings.My council FE told me that the new leader did go thru the appeal process and is allowed to be a registered leader.But it is up to the comittee to allow him to join the crew as a new advisor.He also told me that his app. was run normally because he was in the system from several years earlier.I will be talking again to the FE to find out who will be held liable if something shoul happen. I'mthinking its going to be our CO, but I'll wait and find out.

[nldscout 18]

Let me get this straight the Field exec said cause he was registered several years ago he didn't need a new signed application? If he did , he don't know what he is talking about. The COR still needs to sign the application. Something smells fishy here!

[Bob White 20]

"He also told me that his app. was run normally because he was in the system from several years earlier."

 

I believe DSteele will back me up on this. Not a chance in Aunt Gerty's garters!!! No matter how long ago you might have been registered all new applications are run through the new criminal background screening..ALL of them. The council professionals have no say in the matter...period.

 

As far as who will be responsible. The Chartered Organization will be. They have the ONLY say in approval of adult leaders. The BSA registers them upon approval of the chartering organization and upon meeting the qualifications attested to on the application. It is the Charter organizations responsibility to verify that information and to investigate references.

 

Bob White

[dsteele 20]

Bob White is correct with two exceptions: I don't have and never have had an Aunt Gerty and 2) I wouldn't know if she wore garters and wouldn't want to know.

 

If this leader was removed from Scouting, appealed and was re-instated, he or she would have to apply as if for the first time and a criminal background check would be run. The approvals of the charter partner would be in place.

 

Also, to help out the poster, there is no such position in the BSA as Field Executive or FE -- the correct title is Field Director. The Field Director may have meant that a new application and all the approvals have to be completed in order for the re-instated leader to be registered and could have simply paraphrased.

 

DS

[nldscout 18]

roadwatchr

It still comes down to WHO signed the application. Tell them in no uncertain words, "produce the original copy" . Someone must have it, if not then do not accept this person in any capacity until someone produces it for you.