Summer Camp Only Scout?

[Faith 41]

For the four in question, I have at least 2 phone numbers for each and have only had them answer maybe twice each (some, not even that.) I've been sent to voice mail quite a few times (one reason I resulted to email, so I had proof I did send a correspondence.) Paperwork was handed out at the beginning of the year detailing how monthly dues worked, what they went for and any other extra costs that may pop up (trips, etc. + yearly dues.) That was with our first den leader (she drew up that paperwork) - everyone agreed. Once she dropped out (barely 3 months in), they pretty much did the same. The dens in our pack are night and day depending on which ones you speak to, so it would be hard to get them all to agree on something like that but this upcoming year I will have lots more written down and recorded early on so this doesn't happen again (and I will not be leaving early on to have someone pick up the pieces if I can help it.)

[qwazse 4345]

In our boy's dens, everyone paid dues up front for the supplies we might need. Special costs, everyone pitched in ahead of time. If people didn't pay, we didn't do. No problem. The boys really didn't mind just going out and playing catch.

 

The way my crew operates is that paying dues keeps you on the mailing list. Other stuff is on an individual basis.

[Basementdweller 608]

first he is a boy.....so drop the he's purple pink or blue in color...... Yes the family dynamics are different as are priorities....

 

He is a scout.

 

 

Second, we have completely done away with any scout scholarship or camperships at the pack and troop level......the results were very poor and for the investment of $100 the pack and troop made in each boy for a shirt book and camp for the boys........One in about 25 ever stayed with the program.....a very poor return on the investment.

 

 

As a Committee chairman I would never spend Pack money on a scout to attend any camp if he has no attendance record. I would never take a cub level scout to a resident camp I did not know very well, if at all. So is he a theif, liar, medical issues.....What about the parents???? are they going on vacation while he is at camp????

 

You cannot exclude him, but what I did with a scout, I didn't like, trust and was a generally evil boy, was to make his parent attend with him.......Issue fixed they were going on vacation while he was at camp.

[Gone 435]

@Faith

 

1) On advancing the no-show boys, I would have told my CM they can do it. Unless the parents has recorded what the Scout has done, passing them to the next rank cheapens what the other boys in your den accomplished. What message does that send them let alone the kids who don't show and still get awards? Cub Scouts is not about the "trophies for everyone" mentality. I would put an end to that right now.

 

2) If they are not paying dues they should not benefit from your hard work and prep. I think sometimes people that that motto "for the boys" too far. If they want to attend parties or outings and they have not paid, simply deny them access. While that first encounter may be awkward, it will reinforce the many email and phone messages by saying you are serious and cannot be taken advantage of. That money you are spending is being robbed from YOUR own kids. Unless you are made of money, set your generosity aside and stay firm. Your kids will thank you and no one can question your dedication.

 

3) To avoid the confrontation the CM and the CC should be the ones to send the note and stand behind you. If they don't you have your answer. If that happens I would get with the parents in your Den that do support you and just let them know you cannot continue to fund no-shows who don't pay. They will support you and at the next event just tell the non-paying parents "sorry, but I just don't have the money to pay for your Scout AND mine." Let them complain, stomp and leave. It's YOUR hard-earned money they are stealing!!!

[Basementdweller 608]

MB your forgetting that cubs advance based on Grade not completion of the previous rank....So they advance without receiving his past rank patch no biggy.

[Gone 435]

MB your forgetting that cubs advance based on Grade not completion of the previous rank....So they advance without receiving his past rank patch no biggy.

 

No I get that. But I thought I heard that Faith's Pack was giving these kids the patches too. If that is the case I personally would not want any part of that. If the CM wants to award it, let him do it. But I'd be looking for a different Pack for my kids.

[Basementdweller 608]

I am so glad someone posted about this, we have a somewhat similar situation in our den but as many have suggested, I'm trying to not let it bother me and going forward as best I can. (I apologize if this is considered hijacking but I didn't want to start a new thread on the almost same topic.)

 

We have a few boys in our den that started out strong last year but come December, quit attending all den meets. They are still included on all emails that go out and know about all the goings on in the group. They only attend the field trips, parties, etc. but none of them pay the monthly dues that we use to pay for these outings/supplies. These are the same scouts that did not finish all the requirements for Tiger but I was told to promote them anyways as their parents did pay the yearly dues for the cub scouts to the cubmaster directly.

 

They haven't helped out financially OR participated with any of the prep work for the cubmobile race, multiple trips or the party we've had but they attend them. I had two of these parents ask me to make sure to get their sons a gift as well as they'd be at the end of the year party. We have 5 scouts that work their behinds off on all that we do and I wanted to reward them but it seems unfair to them to see the scouts who didn't attend get the same treatment. I would say money may be an issue but 3 of the 4 scouts I'm referring to go to a private school here in town (my own son couldn't attend due to financial reasons.) I end up covering all the extra out of my own pocket so they can participate in each of these activities (I don't hold it against them, I know its the parents making these choices) but I don't know if I can fork out another $50-$60 next year per child if they don't show up to any den meets but only comes to the 'rewarding' ones (as one mom put it.) I even went as far as emailing them separately about the financial cost of one of the trips awhile back and got no reply but they made sure to show up and attend.

 

Since this is my first year in this, I'm not sure if I'm going about this right or if I'm being too hard/too nice or what. I tried to discuss this with our cubmaster but she just recently stepped down and our new cubmaster is trying to get everything situated so I don't want to overwhelm him with this as well.

Ya, boy shows up for an event and hasn't paid to attend....Nope, boy and parent get sent home.....

 

Remember every scout leader from this point forward will have to deal with the expectation you set now in cubs

 

Dues are a waste of time........ Have the parents pay a den craft fee once a year.....after the first year you have a pretty good idea what ya spent. If it is $20 or $50 each per year so be it, your not chasing parents down monthly or weekly for money..

[Faith 41]

Yes, our CM gave them their patches at the blue and gold ceremony. No, I did not agree with it. The next nearest pack is over an hour's drive away from us and sadly we cannot afford to travel there I did look into it awhile back. We have an amazing group otherwise (and the cubmaster who told me to do that is the one who recently stepped down.) I'm hoping the new cubmaster will not go that route. I already go rounds with my boss asking for the few hours off I need to attend here in town, throw in an extra 2 hours each day to get there and back and I just know it won't happen.

[Faith 41]

I am so glad someone posted about this, we have a somewhat similar situation in our den but as many have suggested, I'm trying to not let it bother me and going forward as best I can. (I apologize if this is considered hijacking but I didn't want to start a new thread on the almost same topic.)

 

We have a few boys in our den that started out strong last year but come December, quit attending all den meets. They are still included on all emails that go out and know about all the goings on in the group. They only attend the field trips, parties, etc. but none of them pay the monthly dues that we use to pay for these outings/supplies. These are the same scouts that did not finish all the requirements for Tiger but I was told to promote them anyways as their parents did pay the yearly dues for the cub scouts to the cubmaster directly.

 

They haven't helped out financially OR participated with any of the prep work for the cubmobile race, multiple trips or the party we've had but they attend them. I had two of these parents ask me to make sure to get their sons a gift as well as they'd be at the end of the year party. We have 5 scouts that work their behinds off on all that we do and I wanted to reward them but it seems unfair to them to see the scouts who didn't attend get the same treatment. I would say money may be an issue but 3 of the 4 scouts I'm referring to go to a private school here in town (my own son couldn't attend due to financial reasons.) I end up covering all the extra out of my own pocket so they can participate in each of these activities (I don't hold it against them, I know its the parents making these choices) but I don't know if I can fork out another $50-$60 next year per child if they don't show up to any den meets but only comes to the 'rewarding' ones (as one mom put it.) I even went as far as emailing them separately about the financial cost of one of the trips awhile back and got no reply but they made sure to show up and attend.

 

Since this is my first year in this, I'm not sure if I'm going about this right or if I'm being too hard/too nice or what. I tried to discuss this with our cubmaster but she just recently stepped down and our new cubmaster is trying to get everything situated so I don't want to overwhelm him with this as well.

Thanks BD. I agree on the dues. Our previous cubmaster put those into place but all the den leaders I've spoke to also think they're a waste of time and effort (too hard to get.) If each parent could pay a one time fee over around $25, I think we'd be more than good to go (and that's if we stay at a low number.) But getting them to pay that is a whole 'nother story. We have a roundtable meeting tonight (with the new leader), he asked us last time to think of some topics we need to discuss and I think this will be one of them.

[Basementdweller 608]

If the group is amazing the forget about it......

 

 

work the with the new CM and make sure she doesn't repeat her predecessors mistakes.

[Gone 435]

Yes' date=' our CM gave them their patches at the blue and gold ceremony. No, I did not agree with it. The next nearest pack is over an hour's drive away from us and sadly we cannot afford to travel there I did look into it awhile back. We have an amazing group otherwise (and the cubmaster who told me to do that is the one who recently stepped down.) I'm hoping the new cubmaster will not go that route. I already go rounds with my boss asking for the few hours off I need to attend here in town, throw in an extra 2 hours each day to get there and back and I just know it won't happen.[/quote']

 

Sorry to hear you don't have options. Then work with the new CM like folks are saying and make sure they know your position. You simply cannot afford to keep paying for people who are leeching off of your good efforts. At some point they need to step up or step away.

[Faith 41]

We met tonight and he actually brought up the dues issue (and I hadn't said a word directly to him yet.) They said they viewed it as a failure overall (for multiple dens) and were going to cease with asking for it. I did not realize it was in a 'test' phase so that was good to hear. They said a more direct approach would be needed (if not from den level, pack level.) He also pointed out that many den leaders had to cover for members (glad to know it isn't just me, some of the other den leaders aren't as chatty so I wasn't sure on the full situations of course) and he did not what that to continue to be the case (if nothing else, a pay by case basis depending on how much is needed, how many show up, etc.) Glad to know we'll have options at least, I enjoyed his entire approach to the matters at hand tonight - straight forward and to the point.

[Jeffrey H 25]

Our Pack charges annual Pack Dues of $40 per scout to cover the cost of awards, belt loops, pins, and handbooks/necker/slides for returning scouts. If a scout sells a miminum dollar amount of popcorn, he gets his annual dues for free. This approach works best for our Pack and we always have an adequate budget to fund the primary program. Money needed for den outings or den projects are collected at the den-level if the need arises.

[Gone 435]

We met tonight and he actually brought up the dues issue (and I hadn't said a word directly to him yet.) They said they viewed it as a failure overall (for multiple dens) and were going to cease with asking for it. I did not realize it was in a 'test' phase so that was good to hear. They said a more direct approach would be needed (if not from den level, pack level.) He also pointed out that many den leaders had to cover for members (glad to know it isn't just me, some of the other den leaders aren't as chatty so I wasn't sure on the full situations of course) and he did not what that to continue to be the case (if nothing else, a pay by case basis depending on how much is needed, how many show up, etc.) Glad to know we'll have options at least, I enjoyed his entire approach to the matters at hand tonight - straight forward and to the point.

@Faith, sounds like you have a good CM. Keep that line of communication open. Sounds like the Pack Committee will be addressing this issue since it affects more than one Den.

 

One thing I did back in the day was to have a meeting with my parents before the Scout year began. We would discuss the upcoming Wolf or Bear schedule, what events we wanted to do, projects, crafts, etc., and try to ball park how much they would cost. I would then put all of that on the schedule and assign different families to purchase the stuff for each mtg. The money was taken out of the Den fund. This way everyone had buy-in to the planning, the costs, the process and the execution. No one could ever say "I did not approve that" and they had a stake in the game by needing to buy something. This helped keep the parents involved. If you don't do something like this now maybe this will help. I will say that I still had folks not fully engage or forget, but I always had a back-up plan. This process did make life easier for me because no one could deny they were involved.

[Faith 41]

We met tonight and he actually brought up the dues issue (and I hadn't said a word directly to him yet.) They said they viewed it as a failure overall (for multiple dens) and were going to cease with asking for it. I did not realize it was in a 'test' phase so that was good to hear. They said a more direct approach would be needed (if not from den level, pack level.) He also pointed out that many den leaders had to cover for members (glad to know it isn't just me, some of the other den leaders aren't as chatty so I wasn't sure on the full situations of course) and he did not what that to continue to be the case (if nothing else, a pay by case basis depending on how much is needed, how many show up, etc.) Glad to know we'll have options at least, I enjoyed his entire approach to the matters at hand tonight - straight forward and to the point.

That is a wonderful suggestion mozartbrau, thank you! No, we do nothing like that. I'm still so new to all this, I'm learning new things everyday (better ways to do this or that.) I imagine with scouting I will always be learning something new, lol, but I greatly appreciate all the input this early on in my path with all this.