How Did We Get Our Uniform

[Kahuna 172]

I started another thread under uniforms and realized I had no clue how our current uniform design came about. I know it was designed by Oscar de la Renta, but do any of you historical types know how it came to be decided that we needed a uniform revision? It's kind of amazing to me that the uniform was modified but never changed in the 70's, when they thought everything had to change. But the total redesign didn't occur until the beginning of the 80's. What was the process?

[emb021 16]

No idea. I was a scout at the time, and had to get the new uniform before I went to the 81 Jamboree.

 

At the time, I wore the old green-khaki uniform at the time. (kind of a mis-name, as 'khaki' really means a sand-tan color. Our uniform at the time was more of a light olive drab. We called it 'khaki', but it really had more green to be a proper khaki). Youth shirts of the time had the v-neck because we wore neckerchiefs, but this was falling out of favor. I jumped on wearing a collared shirt with bolo ties. This would devolve to the current practice of wearing neckerchiefs under the collars (an OPEN collar. Am SO sick of kids buttoning the top button of these shirts. Who is mis-informing these kids?!?)

 

Only changes I saw during my involvement as a scout of the time was dropping a strange 'fold' on the shirt pockets, the slow drop of the v-neck shirts, and the strange buttoned front pockets on the pants.

 

Frankly, as a kid I thought it was an improvement. Kids can grip about the scout socks, but, frankly, they were an improvement over what we had previously: garter tabs under the socks. And the 'new' scout pants and shorts as part of the Oscar de la Renta re-design was an improvement over what we had.

 

Sadly, since then National has monkeyed with the scout pants and shorts, and subsequent re-designs have sucked. (useless cargo pockets, elastic waistbands, etc.

 

[Greying Beaver 10]

To start, go have a look at the first Boy Scout Handbook. The scout shops sell them. Drawings of scouts in their uniforms will show what the origial uniform looked like. It was a cut-down version of the U.S.Army uniform, campaign hat included. Don't argue - go look! Short trousers and shor-sleeve shirts were next. It wasn't until after WWII that the unifrom began to evolve. The color changed toa lighter green, the front pockets had a red piping and were folded down and held in place witha button on the side of the side. There was also a button just under the belt loop that was almost never used. But, boy, could you stuff a lot of stuff into those pockets! The blouse changed from being a coat to a shirt that was tucked in. Epaulettes disappeared and a fold-down collar was used. It was make of a cotton twill that was almost bullet-proof. Comfortable, too. The next change was the uniform designed by Oscar De La Renta and we all know what that looks like . . . .

[Kahuna 172]

Greying Beaver,

 

Yep, I have that book and all the others you reference and a bunch more besides. I've been in Scouting long enough to have worn more versions than I care to mention. My Cub uniform was an "experienced" one that had those metal buttons that you could remove before washing.

 

However, in 1980 the de la Renta uniform was a total change in colors, styles, socks everything. No uniform change was ever that radical since they abolished the old WWI army uniforms you refer to.

 

What I'm curious about is what forces led to such a radical change?

[Its Me 10]

 

I will guess.

 

The uniform change was likely a supporting tactic for a new strategy. I dont have the SM books form 1972 and 1981 to compare but typically an external change in the corporate world is meant to signal that a significant change has occurred within. Often the external change is a clever method to garnering free advertisement. A new look with public fanfare will get more coverage than a change in the cooking merit badge. But the new look can be presented with the announcement of a boarder change.

 

 

 

 

[Kudu 186]

I would be interested in Miki101's account of this.

 

It seems like the Oscar de la Renta Uniform was part of a progressive-modernist movement that began in the early 1970s with the goal of reforming the "outing" out of Scouting.

 

Kudu

 

 

[Kahuna 172]

I tend to agree with both Its Me and Kudu. The only thing odd about the timing is that it was just about the time they decided maybe Hillcourt was right, they were wrong and we needed the outing back. That would have been just shortly before Bill started writing the new Boy Scout Handbook, wouldn't it?

 

My guess is, somebody got the ball rolling back in the mid 70's and it just kept rolling. I think it was too early to have been the image change to presage the return to the outdoors, plus the design was more in line with indoor thing anyway.

 

I always liked the look of the de la Renta, especially before they started tinkering with it. My troops tended to wear jeans and Tshirts on campouts and the uniform was fine for troop meetings.

[Kudu 186]

The Uniform Method was reinstated with Hillcourt's new Scoutmaster's handbook then, but they didn't allow him to restore the rest of his Methods of Scouting. Hillcourt was still an outsider.

 

I'm not sure how much a historian can dig up. I suspect that the national uniform committee exists only on paper, and I also believe that Irving Texas has less control over BSA Supply than most of us assume.

 

This move toward modernization wasn't limited to the United States, although the fact that the BSA is run by corporate managers probably had a significant influence. As the number of Scouts declined worldwide, WOSM associations around the globe abandoned traditional Scouting techniques in an effort to appeal to the perceived values and interests of the new "youth culture."

 

The first thing to go was the uniforms. I once saw somebody's hand-typed graduate thesis at a Scouting patch collectors' trade-o-ree. It was a national survey of different people's impressions of the Scout Uniform, done during this era. I could kick myself for not buying it!

 

Kudu

[Miki101 14]

I think that the re-design of the uniform was more basic than what has been previously mentioned.

 

The complete failure of Boypower '76 led to an exodus from Scouting and caused Chief Scout Executive Jack L. Tarr to take drastic measures. This meant a full overhaul of the program beginning with bringing back the only true "Scouting" professional remaining, Hillcourt, to re-write the Handbook. Along with that, the uniform had to be tossed and the image given a "fresh" look. I guess that Oscar was as good as any to do it.

 

One would have to go into archives to look up the correspondence about it, but I will check a Tarr interview that I have a transcript of to see if it was discussed in 1983.

 

Daviud C. Scott

[Kahuna 172]

Thanks for that insight, David. That theory makes a lot of sense. There was certainly a rightful concern about the Boypower debacle and changing the entire image of scouting would have fit that need. I never saw anything but positive response to the de la Renta uniform at the time, other than that a lot us had to spend some bucks to replace our uniforms. The design was certainly in style at the time. Whether it is now or not is under debate elsewhere.

[Kudu 186]

The design was certainly in style at the time.

 

I heard that it was especially stylish among women, many of whom wore it as a blouse because it was a relatively inexpensive de la Renta original. Too bad Google wasn't archiving it all at the time.

 

Kudu